Tenant snow shoveling?

100% your responsibilities in all scenarios. I shovel the sidewalk and all entry ways within an hour after snowfall subsides. If I am at work, I have a local person in the neighborhood on speed dial to shovel for $15. I would honestly never expect my tenants to shovel or sweep the communal areas.

tjbk

in Roofers 10 years and 5 months ago

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mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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I have a tenant who has exclusive use of the stoop and separate entry through the parlor level (I live on the garden level). I shovel the stairs after every snow. There are times when it’s difficult for me to get to it early enough in the morning. There is no specific language in the lease around snow removal. Liability issues aside, what do people usually do about snow shoveling? Do you leave it to your tenant to shovel, even if only sometimes, or do you make it 100% your responsibility as the landlord? Thanks

Arkady | 10 years and 5 months ago

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I add a rider to my lease that tenants are responsible for compliance w/ NYC rubbish & recycling laws & for the entrances to their apartments.

resident2 | 10 years and 5 months ago

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If you want the tenant to do it, it is best to spell it out in the lease rider upfront, along with all your other house rules. It is also a a good conversation to have while screening…. weed out the “that’s your jobbers….” It seems long gone are the days when everyone just mucked in to get the job done. And as it is you the property owner that gets the summons, the liability if someone slips etc even with a rider in the lease asking the tenant to take responsibility, you the owner are ultimately responsible to get it done.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Thanks. All very true re: my liability. And I did neglect to put it in the rider (a mistake that I won’t be repeating). I certainly don’t mind doing it most times since I already have to take care of the sidewalk/my walkway, but I can’t always get to it before they leave in the morning. And yes, it would be great if it was seen as a shared responsibility where everyone pitched in. My neighbors tend to shove each others’ sidewalks depending on who gets out there first. It all evens out in the end. In the end I should view it as a business relationship where boundaries should be clearly defined. But it is also a situation where there are only two families living in the building so it is a bit more intimate than a simple business deal.

dorkofwindsor | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Aside from liability? Thats the only reason many shovel at all. Even if you leave it to the tenant in the lease, i’d like to see a jury agree that it is ultimately not your responsibility when a third party makes a claim. (hint: they’d come after you anyway since you own the prized a$$et.) Aside from that, if you want them to do it, tenants tend to be (generally) the least conscientious shovelers anyway. So if you don’t care how well the job is done – or more importantly when it gets done – then I’d add it, knowing you may still have to check it and possibly send passive aggressive emails. Some people would be ok with that, but the perfectionist would definitely not. Those people would be noticing that the tenant went to brunch or out for cocktails but didn’t have time to shovel yet. Different strokes as they say.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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I wouldn’t expect them to shovel the common areas. Just asking about the expectation of having their private areas shoveled. I wouldn’t expect them to shovel the sidewalk. Though it would be nice once in a while.

rh | 10 years and 5 months ago

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It never even crossed my mind to have my tenant shovel the stoop when I’m living in the house. My house, my responsibility. My investment property, where I do not reside, is shoveled by a tenant in exchange for a reduction in rent.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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RH, do you use the parlor entrance also?

bedstuyreno | 10 years and 5 months ago

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The only times my tenant shovels is when I’m out of town- and then I provide a reduction in rent. I also don’t think a rider for snow shoveling is binding- in case of you being sued for a fall or the tenant doesn’t comply.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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I definitely know the liability is all mine. Just looking at what people’s experience has been. There are also times when the snow/freezing rain is still coming down and there is an expectation that it is going to be cleaned. But mostly it’s the mornings that are the issue. If there’s an overnight snow I can’t necessarily get out there before they leave early in the morning.

kidbklyn | 10 years and 5 months ago

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You should have bought a one family.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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thanks kidbklyn very helpful.

rh | 10 years and 5 months ago

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I rarely use the parlor. My entrance is under the stairs. I just feel like it’s part of my responsibility as the homeowner to take care of stoop and sidewalk. My tenants cover my mortgage. I’m happy to provide them with the maintenance they deserve….and yeah, the liability issue is a no brainer!

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Thanks RH. They have exclusive use of the parlor entrance. Definitely hear you about the responsibility. I do shovel it after every snow. I guess I am focused on the expectation that it is done before they leave in the morning (which can sometimes be quite early). My point isn’t to find a way out of it, just to hear what others are doing. Thanks

cmu | 10 years and 5 months ago

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You’re expecting too much as a landlord (I’m one myself). It’s a business, housepoorer, regardless of whether its 2 units or 20, so you should do it yourself (or get it done, on my block I can call at least 2 people who will do it for $20). That said, maybe you could improve your relationship with your tenants maybe you just need to talk nicely to them. My tenant helps with snow & garbage routinely but I don’t expect him to.

rh | 10 years and 5 months ago

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If they leave at some ungodly hour, I don’t think they expect you to wake up in the middle of the night to have it cleared for them. 8-9am is fairly reasonable. I don’t think you should have to get up by 6am to do it (even though I wake up that early so I expect the whole world should do the same). Like CMU said, just talk to them.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Yeah, I think I just have tenants who won’t ever really help out on any of these fronts. I’ve had conversations in the past about things like helping with trash if I’m out of town for a week or two, but have returned to overflowing cans. I do in fact speak very nicely to my tenants and am very responsive to their needs so that isn’t an issue. Yes it’s a business and yes I just do it. It seems that most do it themselves with varying degrees of participation from tenants. I don’t for one second think that I live in a commune. They pay me rent. This just seemed like a gray area to me since it’s a private entrance. Maybe not. But like I said I do it anyway. I know people who rent houses and are told up front that shoveling is their responsibility. Whether they do it or not is a mixed bag. But it seems that the majority here are clearly on one side of this issue. Interesting to hear how many owners get help anyway even if they are clear in communicating that the responsibility is their own.

snowman2 | 10 years and 5 months ago

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It is not a gray area. They pay rent and are not responsible for snow shoveling unless it is specifically part of the lease. You are the owner which makes it your responsibility but there is no requirement that it be done before they leave in the am. Use the NYC snow removal requirement as your guide. If you want them to take out the trash and/or shovel when you are not there then that needs to be a conversation and expectation set up front well before lease signing. I have a 2 family and lately I offer my tenants the option to shovel show in accordance with NYC requirements in exchange for a lower rent. Only 2 have gone for it in the past 10 years. One did a good job and the other did a terrible job or just didn’t do it at all – but had the lower rent. Neither wanted to do it again – they (understandably) did not want to be tied down with the responsibility. Part of being a tenant is not having to bother about that stuff. One thing I have in the lease and never had a problem enforcing is paper recycling. The “staging area” is inside the tenant’s apartment and it is their responsibility to take it to the curb in garbage bags or tied.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Agree with you. Technically not a gray area at all. I didn’t put it in the lease. Case closed.