Tenant snow shoveling?

I have a tenant who has exclusive use of the stoop and separate entry through the parlor level (I live on the garden level). I shovel the stairs after every snow. There are times when it’s difficult for me to get to it early enough in the morning. There is no specific language in the lease around snow removal. Liability issues aside, what do people usually do about snow shoveling? Do you leave it to your tenant to shovel, even if only sometimes, or do you make it 100% your responsibility as the landlord? Thanks

mousta

in Roofers 10 years and 5 months ago

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tjbk | 10 years and 5 months ago

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100% your responsibilities in all scenarios. I shovel the sidewalk and all entry ways within an hour after snowfall subsides. If I am at work, I have a local person in the neighborhood on speed dial to shovel for $15. I would honestly never expect my tenants to shovel or sweep the communal areas.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Yep, makes sense. The laws are clear. As I’ve said, I already do it so I’m not in danger of fines or lawsuits. Was trying to get a sense of what experiences are for people with similar setups. Pretty clear. Appreciate all of the feedback.

ventilated | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Your tenants don’t rent your stoop, they rent premises “exclusively” within the confines of your building. NYC Administrative Code on snow removal is clear: your property, your responsibility. Did you explain to the tenants prior to lease signing that you have difficulties attending to your responsibilities? “Exclusive use” of stoop nothing more than a rationalization and desire to cut yourself slack while shifting burden to others. Lease riders that do not comply with NYS law are not enforceable.

kidbklyn | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Good idea!

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Sorry to inconvenience you, kidbklyn. I’ll be sure to check with you before posting next time.

kidbklyn | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Finally the bleating stops.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Agree with you. Technically not a gray area at all. I didn’t put it in the lease. Case closed.

snowman2 | 10 years and 5 months ago

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It is not a gray area. They pay rent and are not responsible for snow shoveling unless it is specifically part of the lease. You are the owner which makes it your responsibility but there is no requirement that it be done before they leave in the am. Use the NYC snow removal requirement as your guide. If you want them to take out the trash and/or shovel when you are not there then that needs to be a conversation and expectation set up front well before lease signing. I have a 2 family and lately I offer my tenants the option to shovel show in accordance with NYC requirements in exchange for a lower rent. Only 2 have gone for it in the past 10 years. One did a good job and the other did a terrible job or just didn’t do it at all – but had the lower rent. Neither wanted to do it again – they (understandably) did not want to be tied down with the responsibility. Part of being a tenant is not having to bother about that stuff. One thing I have in the lease and never had a problem enforcing is paper recycling. The “staging area” is inside the tenant’s apartment and it is their responsibility to take it to the curb in garbage bags or tied.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Yeah, I think I just have tenants who won’t ever really help out on any of these fronts. I’ve had conversations in the past about things like helping with trash if I’m out of town for a week or two, but have returned to overflowing cans. I do in fact speak very nicely to my tenants and am very responsive to their needs so that isn’t an issue. Yes it’s a business and yes I just do it. It seems that most do it themselves with varying degrees of participation from tenants. I don’t for one second think that I live in a commune. They pay me rent. This just seemed like a gray area to me since it’s a private entrance. Maybe not. But like I said I do it anyway. I know people who rent houses and are told up front that shoveling is their responsibility. Whether they do it or not is a mixed bag. But it seems that the majority here are clearly on one side of this issue. Interesting to hear how many owners get help anyway even if they are clear in communicating that the responsibility is their own.

rh | 10 years and 5 months ago

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If they leave at some ungodly hour, I don’t think they expect you to wake up in the middle of the night to have it cleared for them. 8-9am is fairly reasonable. I don’t think you should have to get up by 6am to do it (even though I wake up that early so I expect the whole world should do the same). Like CMU said, just talk to them.

cmu | 10 years and 5 months ago

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You’re expecting too much as a landlord (I’m one myself). It’s a business, housepoorer, regardless of whether its 2 units or 20, so you should do it yourself (or get it done, on my block I can call at least 2 people who will do it for $20). That said, maybe you could improve your relationship with your tenants maybe you just need to talk nicely to them. My tenant helps with snow & garbage routinely but I don’t expect him to.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Thanks RH. They have exclusive use of the parlor entrance. Definitely hear you about the responsibility. I do shovel it after every snow. I guess I am focused on the expectation that it is done before they leave in the morning (which can sometimes be quite early). My point isn’t to find a way out of it, just to hear what others are doing. Thanks

rh | 10 years and 5 months ago

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I rarely use the parlor. My entrance is under the stairs. I just feel like it’s part of my responsibility as the homeowner to take care of stoop and sidewalk. My tenants cover my mortgage. I’m happy to provide them with the maintenance they deserve….and yeah, the liability issue is a no brainer!

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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thanks kidbklyn very helpful.

kidbklyn | 10 years and 5 months ago

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You should have bought a one family.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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I definitely know the liability is all mine. Just looking at what people’s experience has been. There are also times when the snow/freezing rain is still coming down and there is an expectation that it is going to be cleaned. But mostly it’s the mornings that are the issue. If there’s an overnight snow I can’t necessarily get out there before they leave early in the morning.

bedstuyreno | 10 years and 5 months ago

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The only times my tenant shovels is when I’m out of town- and then I provide a reduction in rent. I also don’t think a rider for snow shoveling is binding- in case of you being sued for a fall or the tenant doesn’t comply.

mousta | 10 years and 5 months ago

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RH, do you use the parlor entrance also?

rh | 10 years and 5 months ago

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It never even crossed my mind to have my tenant shovel the stoop when I’m living in the house. My house, my responsibility. My investment property, where I do not reside, is shoveled by a tenant in exchange for a reduction in rent.