Help needed with understanding the renovation process, permits etc.

Bathrooms and kitchens replaced with fixtures more or less in the same spot.

Guest User | 7 years ago

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Guest User | 7 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "3"
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Hello dear brownstone owners. This might be an odd question, but we are first time house owners, and in dire need of some advice. I’m looking for someone who has done a renovation on their home (landmarked) and who would be like to talk us through the process and pitfalls of their undertaking over lunch in a restaurant of your choosing (it’s on us of course!) There are so many questions about contingencies, quotes, permits etc etc, we’re completely overwhelmed and looking for some help.

cate | 7 years and 9 months ago

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Hi Samgo if you don’t mind me asking what neighborhood are you in?

Guest User | 7 years and 9 months ago

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Our house is in Crown Heights, but we still rent in Fort Greene

CarmenR | 7 years and 9 months ago

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I’m happy to help, although we’re not landmarked. Our home is in south slope and we did the whole Alt-1 shenanigans.

slopefarm | 7 years and 9 months ago

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My knowledge of the details is out of date, having done this 12 years ago (oy!). If Carmen is willing to sit down with you, take her up on it. She pretty much knows the updated version of what i know. Meanwhile some big picture advice:
1. Only hire professionals that come well-recommended from trusty sources.
2. Budget 50% more than everyone tells you it will cost.
3. Budget 50% more time than everyone tells you it will take.
4. if you think anyone — a contractor, a vendor, etc — is bullshitting you. drop them like a hot potato. No one bullshits just once. Our worst mistakes always occurred when we stuck with a bullshitter too long out of convenience.
5. Be involved, ask questions, look at the work frequently, etc.
6. Do not let your payments get ahead of the work.
7. Quality, speed, cost. Decide on the order of importance to you — you can get two out of three if you really work at it, but never all three.

Guest User | 7 years and 9 months ago

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Thanks everybody! CarmenR, I will gladly take you up on your offer. I don’t see a option to directly get in contact with people on Brownstoner, but I made a extra gmail account for people to mail me (excuse the weird name). mtamazainguser@gmail.com

Please feel free to drop us a mail to get in contact.

If anyone else has experience with landmarked buildings, please also feel free to reach out!

Guest User | 7 years and 9 months ago

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Hi Samgo. We are just a few months ahead of you. We are doing a partial gut renovation on a non-landmarked 3 story on 11th Street. So far we have: hired our architect; had our plans drawn up; endured 3 rounds of contractor bids (spoiler alert: it’s more expensive than your worst fears); cut back our scope; hired an expediter and, finally, we are getting close to filing.

Our expertise and level of experience is not lunch-worthy, but I’d be happy to share what we have learned so far over a coffee.

slopefarm | 7 years and 9 months ago

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LOL, Jason. FWIW, my knowledge and experience defies a chat over coffee; it requires three rounds of shots.

Guest User | 7 years and 9 months ago

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Hi ParkSlopeJason, please reach me at mtamazainguser@gmail.com

We would love to buy you coffee somewhere at your convenience. We can use all the help/advice we can. Also it wouldn’t hurt us to get our expectations straight 🙂

Guest User | 7 years and 9 months ago

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Sorry to hijack this thread but I don’t see how to DM people. (Btw Samgo – I emailed you my details. SlopeFarm – somedays it feels like even shots won’t dull the renovation pain!!)

Hello CarmenR (hope you see this) we too are preparing for an Alt 1 non-landmarked in South Slope. We just started a new thread asking if people who had renovated recently & changed CO had seen their property taxes explode (which you occasionally hear horror stories about). Can I be cheeky and ask if you had any problems following your reno?

jimhillra | 7 years and 9 months ago

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Samgo, I’m an architect, and our office has done many such renovations. I’d be happy to have a lengthy phone call with you, meet over a cup of coffee, or just have you drop by our office and we’ll supply the coffee. We can discuss the process from the architect’s point of view, and give you our experiences with these kind of renovations.

Please feel free to call or email.

Jim Hill, RA, LEED AP
Certified Passive House Designer
Urban Pioneering Architecture, DPC
(646) 309-7259

kkxmlzpm | 7 years and 9 months ago

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Would you consider a design-build firm? A design-build firm can act as one point of contact to streamline communication for you. In addition they can provide detailed budgets up front to help make informed decisions early on in the design process.

Andy Urbany, RA
Dixon Projects
www.dixon-projects.com

CarmenR | 7 years and 9 months ago

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samgo, sent you an email.

ParkSlopeJason- we did see an increase in our taxes, but not a giant jump. It was about 50%, but our tax rate was low (much like yours.) We saw the jump before our CoO but after we filed for permits. The calculation seemed to be roughly the prior years valuation plus the stated cost of the renovation at indicated on the permits, so still substantially less then the appraised value of our house. Compared to a condo of the same price, our taxes are still quite low. We were pleasantly surprised, however it seems like this process is really unpredictable. We budgeted for it to increase the insane max and are happy that we ended up around 6k annually.

Guest User | 7 years and 9 months ago

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Hi CarmenR – thanks for taking the time to write that detail. That’s really helpful and is consistent with what we’re seeing elsewhere. It’s just a bit scary because – as you say – it’s unpredictable. Thanks again.

wzapuhtxphyl | 7 years and 9 months ago

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I have done it both ways. Filed w/DOB, architect, drawings and put the condenser on roof. I’ve also added a condenser in the back for the cellar without filing anything.

For the roof we needed to install metal beams spanning the width of the brownstone because code doesn’t allow you to secure the condenser directly to a roof surface. This means your guys will either have to find a way to carry these heavy suckers up or crane it. That’s when it gets expensive. For the inside units they must drain the evaporation somehow so if you need to connect to plumbing more $$$. You will also need a licensed electrician to make the connections.

For the cellar I just hired someone and he put it in the backyard installed the interior unit and connected electrical. Obviously the amount of labor is less and so is the price.

cate | 7 years and 9 months ago

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What is your scope of work? We mistakenly thought our house didn’t need much or that certain things weren’t in the budget and seven years later we have hired an architect and are going back at it. I recommend at least talking to an architect, and hiring only licensed people plumbers, electricians and GCs — check their licenses and watch out for those who are using the licenses of others. Architects and tradespeople experienced with townhouses in Brooklyn will know some of the pitfalls and can potentially save you a lot of money. Also, depending on what you want to do/scope/your approach, it IS possible to update systems, keep the details (or not) and renovate bathrooms and kitchens (and possibly facade) for $200K-$300K, if that is what you want to do.

gemby | 7 years and 9 months ago

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Hey guys, this is a great thread (it helps to hear everyone’s stories).

Samgo— I’m going to email you. We’re in the exact same spot and maybe can compare notes as we’re getting started.

Cate— The type of renovation you’re talking about (200-300K to renovate kitchens & baths, keep the details) is exactly what we’d want to do. We haven’t spoken to any architects because we’re considering not filing (no C of O on file and can’t afford an Alt-1) and didn’t think we had the budget to go the architect route. You say you’d recommend at least talking to an architect. In your experience, do they ever consult for a fee without coming on board to design, file & supervise a project?

CarmenR | 7 years and 9 months ago

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Gemby- most architects will do a free consultation (at least any architect that you can afford will!) A note on “keeping the details”- restoring and repairing is often WAY more expensive than replacing. Do not be deluded into thinking that keeping details will save you money- saving and rebuilding your stairs is going to be more than building them from scratch, saving plaster details is a fortune (and you can probably find very similar looking new moulding/medallions) and don’t even get me started on trying to save some details and then get new pieces to match them (it’s nearly impossible.) Thinks like stripping wood costs a LOT of money due to the time and specialization required. We really wanted to save a bunch from our house (build 1855) but most of it had to go, or we were looking at an easy $50k-$100k in restoration costs on top of the reno price. As it is, we saved our floors, part of our handrail, the newel post and one marble mantle and it was probably around $25k all in just for those things. We wanted to “restore” our front facade but the cost to scrape al l the wood would have been triple just getting new wood replicas milled (which is what we did). Don’t get emotionally attached to stuff in the house when you start a reno.

slopefarm | 7 years and 9 months ago

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Oh, no, Cate!!! Sorry you have to do round 2 on your reno! Good luck. Round 2 for us has been a little of this, a little of that, on a regular basis since the original reno ended, as we keep finding shortcuts taken that turned out to have consequences. to add to Cate’s point, a good question when vetting GCs is how much will the GC be on site. How many other crews does he have, etc., how permanent vs pickup is his crew, etc. Daily QC is imporant.

To add to Carmen’s point — saving details makes a lot of the work harder and costlier — much faster to run plumbing, electrical, etc with the walls wide open. Saving details requires care at all stages. that said, if you have the time and money and have details you want to keep, you will need to push back against GC who will often try to tell you you can;t save what you want to save, when really he is looking for a shortcut.