Oh, Benson, I’m still good for the field trip. Just name where and when to meet. We can now easily get the R train from the A, so if you want to meet in South Brooklyn, works for me.
Yes it is easy. Not so easy to look at how it didn’t do the same for Iraqi citizens though.
I don’t say the grass is greener elsewhere- I do question the idea that we only believe in freedom for ourselves and not for others. I question your logic in thinking it was fine to invade a sovereign country that did not attack us, for what? Our rights and freedoms? there is no logic there and you are certainly misunderstanding my thinking.
Regarding the Iraq war, (well done, biff, bxgrl, arcady) the notion that we went in there and kicked Al Queda’s butt is ridiculous. Until we gave them a reason for opening a chapter there, there was no functional Al Queda in Iraq.
Saddam was a horrible person, responsible for the deaths of significant thousands of his own people, not to mention many thousands of his neighbors. Nobody is crying that he’s gone, not even his own family. He also had a dictator’s hold on his country, backed up by the Baath party and his personal army. His secret police made his opposition “disappear” off the streets and out of their homes everyday. To think that the Iraqi people could have easily overthrown him is ludicrous.
However, it has not been the stated policy of our government to go around ridding countries of horrible despots. (which is not to say they haven’t tried, and succeeded, before) If it was, we should have declared war on Milosovich years before, as well as North Korea, Libya, Liberia, Angola, Zimbabwe, and a host of other countries who all have horrible, evil leaders. It’s bad enough we’ve mucked up the natural progression of the governments of Cuba, El Salvador and elsewhere, and made decisions about the Shah of Iran that inevitably led to the religious takeover of that country. Viet Nam, anyone? Cheyney, et al, fronted by Bush, made a decision that they wanted to take Saddam out, and fed it to Bush, who wanted to show his father that he could do what Dad chose not to, capture Saddam. That, and oil and profit motivated their decisions. Al Queda and 9/11 were convenient excuses.
“biff,
lol,you’re gonna need to provide proof of those “millions” you are referring to.”
How about approximately 5.1 million total Vietnamese casualites and a grand total of approximately 5.4 million? And that’s just from one “war”. Should I add up the rest?
The last 7 years- that would be AFTER we invaded Iraq and took down Saddam. You just proved my point- thank you.
bxgrl,
not sure what you’re arguing then.
look up any report on al quaeda’s ability to implement large scale plans against us, or radical islam for that matter since there are many that fit under that umbrella.
They spent huge resources in Iraq,
not my words,
Al Quaeda’s words if you care to look them up.
“Are people having less sex?â€
No – increased practice of coitus interruptus. Seriously, everyone I know uses it.
“I don’t discuss birth control with women too often, but I know several who are on various hormonal systems for the period control, with birth control being a nice side-effect.â€
Lemme guess – they’re moody and anxious. It’s not just NYC, it’s the pill.
“That doesn’t make us less patriotic (or whatever). It means we see the system for what it is. And yes, I hold this country to a higher standard because I believe in the system.”
bxgrl,
I don’t question your patriotism,
I do question your logic though.
It’s way too easy to sit inside of a successful system that has managed to protect its citizens, foster their prosperity and allow them unprecedented individual freedoms
while
at the same time pointing out the inevitable cracks in the foundation.
I say, look at the world around us,
it’s not so rosy where the grass is supposedly greener,
as in Venezuela. lol
Shorting GLD and AGQ today.
Oh, Benson, I’m still good for the field trip. Just name where and when to meet. We can now easily get the R train from the A, so if you want to meet in South Brooklyn, works for me.
Yes it is easy. Not so easy to look at how it didn’t do the same for Iraqi citizens though.
I don’t say the grass is greener elsewhere- I do question the idea that we only believe in freedom for ourselves and not for others. I question your logic in thinking it was fine to invade a sovereign country that did not attack us, for what? Our rights and freedoms? there is no logic there and you are certainly misunderstanding my thinking.
Regarding the Iraq war, (well done, biff, bxgrl, arcady) the notion that we went in there and kicked Al Queda’s butt is ridiculous. Until we gave them a reason for opening a chapter there, there was no functional Al Queda in Iraq.
Saddam was a horrible person, responsible for the deaths of significant thousands of his own people, not to mention many thousands of his neighbors. Nobody is crying that he’s gone, not even his own family. He also had a dictator’s hold on his country, backed up by the Baath party and his personal army. His secret police made his opposition “disappear” off the streets and out of their homes everyday. To think that the Iraqi people could have easily overthrown him is ludicrous.
However, it has not been the stated policy of our government to go around ridding countries of horrible despots. (which is not to say they haven’t tried, and succeeded, before) If it was, we should have declared war on Milosovich years before, as well as North Korea, Libya, Liberia, Angola, Zimbabwe, and a host of other countries who all have horrible, evil leaders. It’s bad enough we’ve mucked up the natural progression of the governments of Cuba, El Salvador and elsewhere, and made decisions about the Shah of Iran that inevitably led to the religious takeover of that country. Viet Nam, anyone? Cheyney, et al, fronted by Bush, made a decision that they wanted to take Saddam out, and fed it to Bush, who wanted to show his father that he could do what Dad chose not to, capture Saddam. That, and oil and profit motivated their decisions. Al Queda and 9/11 were convenient excuses.
“biff,
lol,you’re gonna need to provide proof of those “millions” you are referring to.”
How about approximately 5.1 million total Vietnamese casualites and a grand total of approximately 5.4 million? And that’s just from one “war”. Should I add up the rest?
The last 7 years- that would be AFTER we invaded Iraq and took down Saddam. You just proved my point- thank you.
bxgrl,
not sure what you’re arguing then.
look up any report on al quaeda’s ability to implement large scale plans against us, or radical islam for that matter since there are many that fit under that umbrella.
They spent huge resources in Iraq,
not my words,
Al Quaeda’s words if you care to look them up.
“Are people having less sex?â€
No – increased practice of coitus interruptus. Seriously, everyone I know uses it.
“I don’t discuss birth control with women too often, but I know several who are on various hormonal systems for the period control, with birth control being a nice side-effect.â€
Lemme guess – they’re moody and anxious. It’s not just NYC, it’s the pill.
“But we haven’t elected a government which tortures, maims or terrorizes its citizens.”
We haven’t? We might not have one today, but for a VERY long time we did.
“That doesn’t make us less patriotic (or whatever). It means we see the system for what it is. And yes, I hold this country to a higher standard because I believe in the system.”
bxgrl,
I don’t question your patriotism,
I do question your logic though.
It’s way too easy to sit inside of a successful system that has managed to protect its citizens, foster their prosperity and allow them unprecedented individual freedoms
while
at the same time pointing out the inevitable cracks in the foundation.
I say, look at the world around us,
it’s not so rosy where the grass is supposedly greener,
as in Venezuela. lol