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“I do take offense at you suggesting that I am somehow lacking in “humanistic” qualities because I expect much of my fellow man. I do expect my fellow man to strive to make things better for himself and his family”
But the essence of humanism is empathizing with those less fortunate than ourselves (or at least my poor definition of it,) unlike, say, Randism with its extremist individualism. So when you and others here imply that the poor are poor because they don’t just hitch up their britches and WORK, it’s pretty telling. And galling.
I would contend that most of the “poor” work a lot harder than, say, me, or all of us posters who spend hours blathering on this site. Maybe even two jobs. Tell them that the reason they don’t make a million is that they are lazy or un-ambitious.
Yes, please tell us who is saying that poverty doesn’t exist. I already said we could always do better, but at the same time, let’s not throw the word around as a political canard to incite a “class warfare” ”
um, why does no one get my ‘chance to succeed’ jab? I was saying that we should be careful not to confuse ‘chance to succeed’ with equal opportunity for unaided success depending only on sheer individual will, and I don’t think the latter is an objectionable goal
“But what is true is that people from “everywhere” “all socioeconomic levels” and the most utter levels of poverty HAVE gotten the pie, and large pieces of it too. They applied themselves and worked their way up to the pie.”
Outliers Dave – for every 1 person that came from nothing and “made it” there are 5 that are doomed from conception.
A college degree has as much worth as a high school diploma 20 years ago. School costs are at an all time high – kids are coming out of college with 100s of 1000s of debt, sky high interest rates and competing for a job that will likely have stagnant salaries for the next 5 years or so.
I’m not a hater and I admire all you successful, hardworking posters, but the dynamic is MUCH different today than it was when you were my age.
When all is said and done, and all qualifications, nuances, hat-tipping and considerations have been taken into account and performed, there’s a reason people risk life and limb trying to get into this country. And it isn’t the tea they serve here thats for sure.
Legion- you and I often disagree on political and some social issues, I know. Having been both well off and poor in my life, I have to say that life happens. It certainly happened to me with a vengeance. I wish I could believe that everyone has the same shot at success but the reality is many people have neither the inner resources, or the social resources to change their lives. What I do believe is that this country does allow for greater mobility than others, but that isn’t the same as saying everyone has the same opportunity or ability to get ahead.
I think what you’ve done with your life, and the work you do is more than admirable. Would that more people had as much social conscience (requisite snark- how can you be a republican???) 🙂
Yes, please tell us who is saying that poverty doesn’t exist. I already said we could always do better, but at the same time, let’s not throw the word around as a political canard to incite a “class warfare” mentality as stevieb was clearly espousing. And let us not get to the point where we can’t discuss the true societal successes of this nation.
“I do take offense at you suggesting that I am somehow lacking in “humanistic” qualities because I expect much of my fellow man. I do expect my fellow man to strive to make things better for himself and his family”
But the essence of humanism is empathizing with those less fortunate than ourselves (or at least my poor definition of it,) unlike, say, Randism with its extremist individualism. So when you and others here imply that the poor are poor because they don’t just hitch up their britches and WORK, it’s pretty telling. And galling.
I would contend that most of the “poor” work a lot harder than, say, me, or all of us posters who spend hours blathering on this site. Maybe even two jobs. Tell them that the reason they don’t make a million is that they are lazy or un-ambitious.
Ditto -you can find PG tips at fairway…. you know?
ha
If the goods made overseas (Honda, Toyota, Sony, etc, etc, etc) are better then only a fool would buy inferior American products.
“dirty hipster,
Yes, please tell us who is saying that poverty doesn’t exist. I already said we could always do better, but at the same time, let’s not throw the word around as a political canard to incite a “class warfare” ”
Sorry dude – tried to clarify above.
um, why does no one get my ‘chance to succeed’ jab? I was saying that we should be careful not to confuse ‘chance to succeed’ with equal opportunity for unaided success depending only on sheer individual will, and I don’t think the latter is an objectionable goal
“But what is true is that people from “everywhere” “all socioeconomic levels” and the most utter levels of poverty HAVE gotten the pie, and large pieces of it too. They applied themselves and worked their way up to the pie.”
Outliers Dave – for every 1 person that came from nothing and “made it” there are 5 that are doomed from conception.
A college degree has as much worth as a high school diploma 20 years ago. School costs are at an all time high – kids are coming out of college with 100s of 1000s of debt, sky high interest rates and competing for a job that will likely have stagnant salaries for the next 5 years or so.
I’m not a hater and I admire all you successful, hardworking posters, but the dynamic is MUCH different today than it was when you were my age.
When all is said and done, and all qualifications, nuances, hat-tipping and considerations have been taken into account and performed, there’s a reason people risk life and limb trying to get into this country. And it isn’t the tea they serve here thats for sure.
Legion- you and I often disagree on political and some social issues, I know. Having been both well off and poor in my life, I have to say that life happens. It certainly happened to me with a vengeance. I wish I could believe that everyone has the same shot at success but the reality is many people have neither the inner resources, or the social resources to change their lives. What I do believe is that this country does allow for greater mobility than others, but that isn’t the same as saying everyone has the same opportunity or ability to get ahead.
I think what you’ve done with your life, and the work you do is more than admirable. Would that more people had as much social conscience (requisite snark- how can you be a republican???) 🙂
dirty hipster,
Yes, please tell us who is saying that poverty doesn’t exist. I already said we could always do better, but at the same time, let’s not throw the word around as a political canard to incite a “class warfare” mentality as stevieb was clearly espousing. And let us not get to the point where we can’t discuss the true societal successes of this nation.