“It’s funny how so many fake liberals / closet social Darwinists there are. I consider myself moderatley libertarian/conservative and the lack of respect for working men and woman here is shocking to me.”
Oh please, everyone is now harping on about the “lack of respect for for working men and women” when the argument has actually been around the rights and wrongs of unions. Such goal-post moving and not-so-subtle insult might work on a politcal TV debate but here – no.
Kens- you’ll note I said I was stretching it! But in some ways, I do see them as somewhat equivalent. And the scary thing is how many doctors and surgeons have a drinking problem. And really- would you want an electrician to rewire your house with a hangover? Think about it- more people die from electrical fires than from brain surgery.
I’m not saying an electrician and a doctor should make the same salary- I would just like people to show as much respect for each craft (as it were). On the other hand, a CEO makes far more than most doctors (DH? Over to you 🙂
DH — I don’t think a ‘labor trust’ is necessarily a bad thing. You’re correct, unions do force wages up (or at least guarantee a floor). Is that a terrible thing? I’m not defending the absurd wages that several unions have negotiated for unskilled workers — but they do provide, what I consider, appropriate protection from the evil side of the market… skilled workers being undercut and undercut because that’s what the market *wants* to pay. Remember this little economic crisis we’re currently in? The Friedman approach to economic theory sort of fell apart… no?
That being said, I’m of the opinion that the ‘socialist’ ethos of unions subsidizes underperformance and stifles excellence. (We may be in agreement here) Even with everything I’ve said about the UFT and the dysfunction of the school teacher profession… the unions keep wages at a level that allows the teachers to actually live IN the city where they teach. This is not the case with the private schools in this town.
(Now should all of the public school teachers keep their jobs? Hell no. I bet this school system could deal with a 25% culling of the dead wood!!)
Unions are about workers getting together and negotiating a contract. Strength through numbers, the same logic behind a corporation or ANY type of organization. Maybe if we still made things in this country I wouldn’t have to explain this to you…
“I’m not saying an electrician and a doctor should make the same salary”
Why not? They both often have to deal with faulty wiring.
“I would just like people to show as much respect for each craft (as it were)”
Mr B could set up a survey/widget for us.
LOL or perhaps just four names like Frank Sam Robert George…..
but whatever you guys like
“It’s funny how so many fake liberals / closet social Darwinists there are. I consider myself moderatley libertarian/conservative and the lack of respect for working men and woman here is shocking to me.”
Oh please, everyone is now harping on about the “lack of respect for for working men and women” when the argument has actually been around the rights and wrongs of unions. Such goal-post moving and not-so-subtle insult might work on a politcal TV debate but here – no.
Kens- you’ll note I said I was stretching it! But in some ways, I do see them as somewhat equivalent. And the scary thing is how many doctors and surgeons have a drinking problem. And really- would you want an electrician to rewire your house with a hangover? Think about it- more people die from electrical fires than from brain surgery.
I’m not saying an electrician and a doctor should make the same salary- I would just like people to show as much respect for each craft (as it were). On the other hand, a CEO makes far more than most doctors (DH? Over to you 🙂
farts sound really queefy?
DH — I don’t think a ‘labor trust’ is necessarily a bad thing. You’re correct, unions do force wages up (or at least guarantee a floor). Is that a terrible thing? I’m not defending the absurd wages that several unions have negotiated for unskilled workers — but they do provide, what I consider, appropriate protection from the evil side of the market… skilled workers being undercut and undercut because that’s what the market *wants* to pay. Remember this little economic crisis we’re currently in? The Friedman approach to economic theory sort of fell apart… no?
That being said, I’m of the opinion that the ‘socialist’ ethos of unions subsidizes underperformance and stifles excellence. (We may be in agreement here) Even with everything I’ve said about the UFT and the dysfunction of the school teacher profession… the unions keep wages at a level that allows the teachers to actually live IN the city where they teach. This is not the case with the private schools in this town.
(Now should all of the public school teachers keep their jobs? Hell no. I bet this school system could deal with a 25% culling of the dead wood!!)
“the lack of respect for working men and woman here is shocking to me.”
I fully respect and support working women.
In fact, I support many of them financially.
Unions are about workers getting together and negotiating a contract. Strength through numbers, the same logic behind a corporation or ANY type of organization. Maybe if we still made things in this country I wouldn’t have to explain this to you…