The Great Flat Roof Tear Off Debate

We are in need of roof work….thats for certain.  It’s a typical brownstone flat roof with a couple of skylights to boot.  I’ve had the usual roofer suspects out for estimates (Premier, LeakMaster, etc) who all insist there is no reason to perform a full tear off – “It’s a nice job” they say, “but you’ll spend over $20k and be no better off for it”.   On the other hand, every GC I’ve had through INSISTS that the only way to handle is a full tear off and rebuild of the roof. I realize that this may be a fundamental difference in how these two groups earn their living, but I’d love anectdotal experience from those who may have gone through the same decision process. Bonus Points: Any Premier vs Leakmaster opinions? Leakmaster is about 15% more expensive but claims use of better materials and a 20 year (vs 10 year guarantee).  Appreciate your help and comments!

asimplenoise

in Roofers 12 years and 8 months ago

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mylrob | 12 years and 8 months ago

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This could be a lenghty debate and many things factor in the right recommendation. In many cases ist’s the cost and the budget available. To replace the roof (as in removing all exisitng membranes down to the roof deck) you must also hire an abatement contractor; this raises the cost of a replacement project by approximately 35%. Some smaller contractors will try to tell you otherwise but they are putting you at risk; it’s illegal and the fines are hefty. Next, what warranty are you looking for- with a full replacement you will typically get a 20 year NDL manufacturers warranty and up to three years of contractors warranty. With a recovery rof you will get half of that. The reare no 12  year warranties. And don’t be fooles, installing an additional ply of membrane over the exisitng is not a “recovery” roof; this involves installing, in most cases, the installation of a board and two plies of membrane. In addiiton you might have to raise any hatch door or skylight curbs to a minimum 8″. As someone mentioned before, many roofs already were recovered and you cannot continue in that way for ever due to the weight of the roof system. For a typical brownstone roof (850-1000 SF) you should not pay more than $15k plus abatememnt. If you need any more questions please go to www.nycprecision.com

jsa | 12 years and 8 months ago

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Many old roofs have asbestos in the early layers.  Maybe the roofers don’t want to do a complete tear off because of the high cost of asbestos abatement.

superdee01 | 12 years and 8 months ago

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sorry I forgot his contact number is 718 485-1044.

superdee01 | 12 years and 8 months ago

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well asimplenoise if you want another opinon I know of a contractor who offers free estimates and is very reliable also licensed his name is Dan and this type of work is right up his alley and I know one thing I’m sure he will give you clean work and you will be very happy with the outcome.

cupolacoffee | 12 years and 8 months ago

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You cannot put add an endless number of roof layers to your building, which is not engineered to support the weight. Each additional layer has the potential to trap water between.
NYC Code (especially note #3): 1510.3 Recovering versus replacement. New roof coverings shall not be installed without first removing all existing layers of roof coverings where any of the following conditions occur:
1\. Where the existing roof or roof covering is water soaked or has deteriorated to the point that the existing roof or roof covering is not adequate as a base for additional roofing.
2\. Where the existing roof covering is wood shake, slate, clay, cement or asbestos-cement tile.
3\. Where the existing roof has two or more applications of any type of roof covering.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/cc_chapter15.pdf

NeoGrec | 12 years and 8 months ago

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I would go with the roofers’ opinions over the GCs. Unless there’s something specific the GCs have in mind that you haven’t mentioned here — like maybe they plan to insulate the cockloft or they think you need new vents or want to repair the roof rafters.

nalusurf | 12 years and 8 months ago

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Good Morning!  I recently posted a recommendation for Premier Roofing Co (about 2 weeks ago, you can probably find it in the archives).  Anyway, we were in a very similar situation.  We just closed on our brownstone in March of this year.  Seller claimed a new roof had been recently (within 4 yrs) installed.  However, we witnessed multiple leaks around one skylight and the hatch.  We had three estimates, two of them were from Leak Master and Premier.  I found both to be very knowledgeable, within the same ballpark regarding estimates, and as you discovered both recommended the non-tear off option (I have the original roof plus the very poor fabric that was incorrectly installed by the previous owner, so I don’t think it actually counts as a true layer).  I went with Premier because I felt their technique was more inclusive and thorough (including building up the rear of the roof with lumber to improve the drainage slope), 2 new sky lights, new hatch and they also put a new roof over my extension off the back of the house, plus a new leader from the roof top, and a gutter and leader on the extension (none existed on the extension prior).  Their price was actually slightly cheaper than Leak Master and they were doing more work and I believe my warranty is 12-15 years (but I’d have to check).  Honestly, I think the technique and materials both use are very similar and either roof would last equally as long.  I am very happy with Premier’s work thus far, there has been some very significant rain events over the past 2 months and we are bone dry.  I would be happy to have you come and look at their work if you’d like, you may respond here with your e-mail.  Personally, I prefer a specialist when it comes to roofs, especially flat roof tops on brownstones as opposed to a general contractor who does roofing among many other jobs.  Hope this helps!

asimplenoise | 12 years and 8 months ago

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There are definitely multiple layers on my roof – and as I understand it, this is not at all unusual for the area.  Bringing in the some of the most often recommended roofers on this forum I expected that they would share concerns about ‘too many layers’ but that just doesnt seem to be the case.  I’m led to either one of two conclusions – 1\. These incredibly highly recommended folks are steering me and countless others in the wrong direction and are out there making good names doing bad business OR 2\. Multiple layers on brownstone flat roofs are a fact of life and while not technically the ‘correct’ solution have served to keep the rain off folks heads for decades and decades.  I’m stumped.

mruby36 | 12 years and 8 months ago

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It is a morning for roofs it seems…   I just posted what I hope was a constructive answer to pretty much the same question.  Would you please read the post and my answer just below yours – Roofing Materials for  new roof” and comment back with other questions relative to your own situation?   In short, existing moisture, how many roofs are alrealy installed presently e.g. are you considering going over one roof system or has a go-over been done in the past and would your new go-over be a third roof, and, code requirements for your building. Hope this helps! Matt R