which path would you take to reduce construction cost for our brownston project?
A good architect should be able to help you find acceptable subsitutions or phase the project according to your priorities to distribute project costs over time.
Guest User | 6 years and 11 months ago
17
Please log in, in order to post replies!
17 replies
surplusvalue18
in Renovation 7 years ago
We are about to embark on our long-awaited renovation … we have a good design and good architect. Its nearly a gut renovation; current condition is livable, but hasn’t seen work done in three decades, no hvac, etc. We have one estimate and are looking at ways to de-scope to hit our budget before getting bids – about 15%. We are curious what the group thinks. How would you approach this:
– do we go “simpler”, i.e., lower quality finishes, less millwork, etc.? concern there is we don’t get the full value if we have to sell / under utilize the space
– not touch one or two of the floors (i.e., not excavate the cellar, leave the top floor untouched)
something else?
of course we will try and get as much as we can through negotiation, but wanted advice…
zlapqtorekgljwxy | 7 years ago
without knowing the details it’s hard to say. what i will tell you is that prices are very high right now in construction and if the house hasn’t been worked on in 30 years make sure you have a significant contingency. my only other advice would be that if you’re doing major HVAC/plumbing/electrical work it’s difficult to confine that to specific floors without disturbing other floors. That said, i’m sure the excavation cost is a significant one. You could also bid with add-alts called out so you could make the decision after the fact. My gut instinct would be to do everything inside the walls now and anything outside the walls consider as negotiable (I’m talking millwork, finishes, etc.). That way if you have to cut back it’s in areas that won’t require you to re-open the walls in the future. Has your architect given any advice?
EJR | 7 years ago
Focus on the big ticket but primarily cosmetic or non-essential portions of the reno. Are you planning a rear “curtain wall” that requires structural engineering changes? If so, is there an option that gives you added light without requiring structural work? Do you need the added space from a basement excavation or is it a nice to have? Do you really need to worry about decisions from a resale value perspective? How soon are you realistically going to move? If it’s 10+ years, then little of what you do now from a cosmetic standpoint will affect resale value all that much anyway, since the kitchen/bathrooms, etc. will seem out of date anyway. If you think you’ll move in 5 years or less, then reconsider why you are bothering with a large scale renovation now. You will certainly not recoup 100% or even close to 100% of the costs in resale.
smadargolan | 7 years ago
I vote option A, mainly. Stick with simple, basic, (but decent quality) fixtures and finishes – you don’t want super cheap quality, but you can get decent stuff for decent prices if you keep it simple. You can always upgrade cosmetics later. Make sure the fundamentals are sound – like Maggie said, if you are rewiring or replumbing or installing HVAC, do it all at once – it’s SO much easier to just do it all at the same time while the walls are open rather than having to go back after the fact and add or retrofit. Also – can you do any of the work yourself? I had a contractor do all the heavy lifting, then I did a lot of the finishing work – trim and moldings, painting, etc – and it saved a lot (but cost a lot in my time, of course). I also acted as a partial GC – my contractor was willing to let me sub and manage things like the plumber, electrician, flooring, tiling, etc, so that basically saved me the 20% markup right there (but again costs time, and you need to have very open and clear lines of communication with your contractor). My contractor was great in that respect – happy to recommend him if you’re still looking at options.
NeoGrec | 7 years ago
What to avoid: Try not to move plumbing stacks, that is, redo the bathrooms and kitchen but leave them where they are. Have a structural engineer or very experienced GC inspect the cellar. If it is sound but ugly, just leave it for now and tackle it later. What to go for: New floors are NOT one of the costlier items in a reno but make a huge aesthetic difference. New windows, on the other hand, are pricey but make a huge difference to your comfort and energy bills.
slopefarm | 7 years ago
Some good advice above and, depending on your scope, what works best for you may vary. My $.02: 1. Get all the mechanicals done right on the first go around. 2. Keep the parts of the scope that you see making the house most enjoyable and livable for you. 3. Don’t worry so much about resale unless your time frame for living there is really short (in which case, I would do nothing and then flip). 4. You can save money on finishes, but less than you think because the labor cost isn’t that different. 5. An exception to 4 is that if you are looking at a big kitchen, or two kitchens, Ikea cabinets will save you a lot of money compared with semi custom. Other than that, not too many items that can produce large savings on the sourcing side.
randolph | 7 years ago
we saved a bunch of money by getting home depot kitchen cabinets (martha stewart brand) and then had a local carpenter make custom fronts. we did if for under 10k total as opposed to the 30-75k quotes were were getting for custom cabinetry.
we also went with a mini split system for primary heating and cooling rather than having to install a separate boiler for baseboard heating. not sure the exact number but it meant less work for the plumber and less work running a vent to the roof which would have been a bitch because A. there was not a good place for it within our design and B. since the vent would have had to pass through dwelling units (2 family house) it would have to have been in a fire rated shaft etc. and i was told by the CG that is $$$.
we saved a little more by using pre-finished siding in the back of the house. also used a lower grade wood for flooring in the garden apartment.
lastly I purchased a lot of the plumbing fixtures and doors/hardware and appliances and tile etc etc etc rather than having the architect or GC get these for us and charge a 15% markup. this was more work for me but I did not mind controlling that aspect of things.
EJR | 7 years ago
This is not necessarily cost saving, but per very explicit in your contract with the GC on what products will be used that are sourced by the GC. Perhaps not drywall or rough plumbing, but vent fans, tub drains, etc., if you are not 100% explicit down to the model number, the GC will buy a builder-grade version of the item.
Lurker | 7 years ago
Great advice above, as someone who had similar situation. The death by a thousand cuts doesn’t really work–$1000 here, 500 there, 2000 there. And there’s a false economy of assuming you will do it yourself—your time is worth money, and also 10 minor projects you leave for yourself will haunt you for years and never get finished the way you dreamt or intended.
If you’re doing utilities, put your money there and do it right so you don’t have to go back and do it again which is vastly more costly—you can’t re-wire floor by floor, and if you’re going to get any new plumbing you’re likely going to get ALL new plumbing. Definitely get a consultation on alternative options–the fancy heating system that costs 30 grand might be 97% efficient and last 15 years, but the one that’s 85%, costs 15k and lasts 25 years might be the better way to go.
Ikea kitchens–it’s a cliche but they are really solid and if you want to dress them up with fronts if need be (and Ikea has 20% quarterly sales and also guarantees against price drops, so if you buy and then a sale happens, bring you r receipt and they refund you). You can fully outfit a lovely kitchen for $5k then add in fronts later when the job is done. Because you’ll have so much cash left over 😉
Windows are interesting as outfitting your house with 20 new ones is at least a 20-30k job. My understanding is that if you caulk up the external gaps and re-glze the panes you’re in good shape and you’ll never get an ROI on new ones. Sure, if you have broken plastic or vinyl then you gotta replace em, but if they’re old wood ones consider keeping them and at worst case having either storm windows or someone refurbish them. You can save insane amounts by buying decent off-the shelf ones that are wood with aluminum wrap rather than getting custom, too.
You touch the floors in your home more than any other surface–they’re important and having shitty ones will annoy you every step. For that matter same goes with plumbing and electric. The clanging pipes, or slow drains, or backups, or leaking fixtures, as well as flickering lights, or too-few outlets, or constantly popping breakers. Those are the kinds of things that plague you, and unlike finishes you can’t readily change them later. You can always do woodwork, paint, moldings, etc.
Godspeed
robertbullock | 7 years ago
Really great advice above. We also did custom faces for standard (Ikea) cabinets, ducted minisplit heat/HVAC, forewent the basement and deck for when we have the $ (still waiting, but it’s OK), purchased our own appliances (returned scratch and dent ones are a great bargain, especially when the scratches/dents aren’t to the faces) plumbing fixtures, lighting, etc., but nothing structural or complicated. We had no option but to install new floors but you can find (relative) bargains here. Through the above economies, and not counting deck and basement, we easily saved $75K, probably more. But now that you have a good plan and architect, don’t cheap out on the contractor!
igorabram | 7 years ago
There are three kinds of pipe. There’s aluminum, which is garbage. There’s bronze, which is pretty good, unless something goes wrong. And something always goes wrong. Then, there’s copper, which is the only pipe I use. It costs money. It costs money because it saves money.
randolph | 7 years ago
people use aluminum or bronze pipe for their plumbing? what?
igorabram | 7 years ago
Sorry, I couldn’t help myself from quoting the plumber in “Moonstruck.” Seriously, though, lots of great points made here. I am living through the second year of a major renovation and I would add that if you are going to invest your own time in the renovation, focus it on project management more than labor. Keep a detailed journal and log of each day…who was on site, what they did, what was accomplished, what was delivered, what needs to be ordered, etc…Take lots of pictures every step of the way. Having “before” and “during” pictures will help greatly when discussing work with contractors. If contractors know you are on top of the project and keeping detailed track of everything, they are much more likely to meet expectations. Mistakes are going to be made, but this approach will help to catch them early before they become much more expensive.
Focus on the rooms you will use most first. It is better to wait on a third floor or guest bedrooms until you have lived in the house for a while and realize what you really need beyond the kitchen and bathrooms rather than predicting those needs beforehand.
Good luck with your renovation!
randolph | 7 years ago
> @brooklynheightsivy
> quoting the plumber in “Moonstruck.”
once again your words are completely lost on me!
randolph | 7 years ago
> @brooklynheightsivy
> I am living through the second year of a major renovation
please tell us more….is it your place? what is your budget? which neighborhood? maybe post some pictures?
Northie | 7 years ago
Stage the work. Do all structural and infrastructure work first and spend the money to get that right. You can’t go back and redo that. That is alway money well spent. Then phase in the cosmetics.
anotherposter | 7 years ago
I agree with the others.
Side note, are you doing any exterior work, like the sidewalk? If so, pay to get a camera put down your waste line first and see if it’s near the end of its life. That’s one thing we regret not doing–no issues with it for the years we were there and then about 6 months after ripping out and redoing the sidewalk and front yard, we had a back-up and found out the old pipe is in terrible condition.