Pump water from basement out to the front of the building

A few months ago during Tropical Storm Fay, my apartment’s basement got flooded when the city’s sewer system backed up. All the rain water that was supposed to be flowing away from the building came rushing in on 2 sides of the apartment building and into the basement.

I have been speaking to a basement waterproofing company and they are suggesting that they install a sump pump in the basement and pump the water from the basement out to the front of the building on the ground floor. This will eventually cause the water to flow away from the building towards the sidewalk and street.

Is this actually legal to do? When the time comes to sell the our apartment, will it fail inspection?

We are a part of a 4 floor apartment building and we own the ground floor apartment which was also supposed to have a livable basement.

If anyone has any knowledge about this situation, it would be great to get your thoughts. Thank you

Guest User | 4 years and 8 months ago

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lkrshacmzcy | 4 years and 8 months ago

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I would ask the question first and wait for the response; there are a lot of different routes this situation can take from there.
If he is a good Developer, you won’t have a case against him. I used to work for one; they know what they are doing in cutting corners. In this instance here, what they did is not illegal but yet it is inconvenient for you due to the backups; your resolution would be the illegal work if you so wish to choice it.

mozeeatupu | 4 years and 8 months ago

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>happened within the first year of being purchased, the developer is on the hook to fix any issues that happen within the first year by a New York City or New York law

Do you know what law this is?

Guest User | 4 years and 8 months ago

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The other big question for us is if we do go down the road of trying to sue the developer, do we actually have a case against him? The argument he will most likely make is that it is not his responsibility to handle when the city sewers stop accepting storm water.

Does anyone know if that is a valid legal argument?

Guest User | 4 years and 8 months ago

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Thank you much, Chris. I will ask him for those. Once we have those things in hand, should we go to the Dept of Buildings?

Thank you for the advice, resident2, and I agree. We have started reaching out to lawyers.

lkrshacmzcy | 4 years and 8 months ago

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Tell the developer you want a copy of the LAA or OP128 for the Plumbing Work that is being performed for your personal records.
He would be one Steel-Brass developer, and it would be a hell of a Plumbing Company, if the work is not up to code and filed.

resident2 | 4 years and 8 months ago

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It sounds like you need to hire a litigation / condo plan attorney & sue your developer / sponsor quickly. You have a limited time to make the developer do the right thing.
The Attorney will have a building engineer go through the whole building and you will probably find more issues than just the flooding basement.

Guest User | 4 years and 8 months ago

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Thank you Maggie O. That helps a lot.

If we were to pursue the route of a detention tank that would hold the water if there was serious flooding, would anyone be able to recommend a company that does that type of work? That sounds like more serious work that goes beyond talking to a basement waterproofing company.

Guest User | 4 years and 8 months ago

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you might find this section of code interesting. https://up.codes/viewer/new_york_city/nyc-plumbing-code-2014/chapter/11/storm-drainage#1114.1.1
it appears that there are circumstances where this type of setup is approved but there has to be a reason for it. i would put the onus on the developer to show clearly that the proposed system is code-compliant.

Guest User | 4 years and 8 months ago

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To give a little more context for this whole issue, we bought the apartment in August of last year from a developer that gut renovated the building . Since the flooding happened within the first year of being purchased, the developer is on the hook to fix any issues that happen within the first year by a New York City or New York law. The proposed solution of pumping the water out from the basement out into the sidewalk came from our developer after they spoke to a basement waterproofiing company. We have asked the developer if the solution violates code or is illegal, and the response was that the basement waterproofiing company “is a licensed contractor who would not risk their license by doing anything illegal.”

To make matters more complicated, there is a second contractor involved, a plumbing company. The work that the plumbers are supposed to do is installing the pipes that will pump the water onto the sidewalk. So we suspect that this shields the basement waterproofing company from any liability since they will only be installing the sump pump.

This is all to s ay that we do not trust anything the developer says to us. We are concerned that he just wants to get this fixed so we don’t sue him, but he doesn’t care if this thing violates code. It’s not his problem when we, or anyone else in the building, try to sell in the future.

Is there a city agency or some other party that we can show the proposed solution to that can tell us whether it violates code or not?

Thank you to all who have chimed in with all this helpful information so far.

GreenThinker | 4 years and 8 months ago

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A mortgage company just does an appraisal of the building, checks for a clear title, any liens on the property, open violations with any fee’s attached to them. Though, i’ve seen buildings sell with open violations without issues.

If you’re really that worried about it and want to be on the cautious side, just use a flexible pvc hose that can be easily attached and detached. You won’t be pumping out water every day, just a handful times in the year, during heavy periods of rain/back-ups. Like i said, no one is walking around checking if water is being pumped out of cellars during a storm.

Guest User | 4 years and 8 months ago

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Thank you again, everyone.

It’s hard to know what to do. Reading people’s different experiences, it sounds like it could go either way. One of our neighbors is pumping water onto the street and has not had a violation issue as far as I know.

GreenThinker, it’s reassuring to hear that you think the mortgage company won’t give it a 2nd glance. Can I ask what makes you so sure? Couldn’t it depend on the person who comes to inspect or the particular mortgage company or the people involved in the particular instance?

Chris, thank you for sharing your thoughts. Can I ask what you would if you were in our shoes?

lkrshacmzcy | 4 years and 8 months ago

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In short: No. The city response is always the same: there are millions of people in this city, we cannot break the law for single individuals because there is always a solution. I have seen some ridiculous harsh penalties thrown down from people in tough spots. The bottom line is that there really always is a solution, it just may be pretty invasive.
What you are referring to is a Detention Tank; my old company installs them in large construction projects. They are actually pretty wild to install. It would be a MASSIVE investment to do one after a building is built, but I have seen it done when there is nothing else to do.
I have wrote on here before, said it in person, and will continue to preach it: when someone can figure out how to legally displace Storm Water in Downtown Brooklyn, they will be the world’s richest tradesman.

GreenThinker | 4 years and 8 months ago

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I’ve seen homeowners who have permanent pvc pipes (1 inch or 1 1/4) run outside where their basement hatch is, to pump water out. I’ve also seen people just run hoses out during storms/flooding. While there might be a code or a rule, building inspectors certainly aren’t walking around looking for these things, especially when no one complains about it in the first place. When you’re selling, the mortgage company won’t even give it a 2nd glance. Worst case, a home inspector simply notes it’s there, but its a solution to a potential problem, not a problem in itself.

Guest User | 4 years and 8 months ago

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Thank you for the responses everyone. It’s much appreciated.

I feel like I am in tough bind here. Pumping back into the sewer lines doesn’t seem to be an option especially when the city closes off the sewer lines.

I have spoken with the other owners of the building, and they are understandably also concerned about doing any work that will cause the building to violate building codes.

My partner spoke to an architect and they suggested a very expensive solution where you have the water pumped into some sort of tank which would not violate building codes. I am not sure if we can afford that solution.

Is there some process that you can go through with the city to get work that would normally violate code approved by the city when you do not have any other options?

Guest User | 4 years and 8 months ago

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speak to a different waterproofing company. this one is either unaware of or does not care about the building code. their suggestion would get you a violation.

lkrshacmzcy | 4 years and 8 months ago

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You cannot dump Storm or Sewer Water onto the street or sidewalk…that is a big violation waiting to happen and one of the easiest to be caught with since you do not need to be home for it to be observed and reported

stevecym | 4 years and 8 months ago

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also, i do have actual experience in Home Owner Association Management (in another state) and what you are talking about, even though it affects only your unit, sounds as though it is a building wide issue, part of the larger property. it sounds like the building as a whole should be absorbing the expense of the correction. it really should not be your worry but the boards or the management companies concern. if they don’t want to deal with this, there are ways to force their hand.

stevecym | 4 years and 8 months ago

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any building i have worked in pumps this kind of water into the sewer line. i doubt this would be legal, but i am not a plumber.