D.O.B. Permit to Replace Illegal Unions on Pipes and Gas Line Test

Actually, simplifying and rationalizing DOB procedures would be a great thing, but, somehow, I don’t think “jamesplumbingquestions1” is the guy to accomplish this reform 🙂

BobMarvin

in Plumbing 8 years and 9 months ago

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mgemodi | 8 years and 9 months ago

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I had a plumber quote me over the phone $175 to do gas line test and $1650 to file for a permit to be able to replace some unions on a pipe that are allegedly not up to code to my stove in the house that I barely use. Is the plumber suppose to give me a certificate after he performs a gas test or affidavit that the line is compliant.

jcm | 8 years and 9 months ago

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In order to replace the unions on a gas line, the plumber is required to do a gas test after the work is done. The DOB is cracking down on all work on gas lines and no plumber wants to be caught doing work without a permit. Hence the work, however minor, needs to be filed and tested. The plumber has to hire someone to do the paperwork, file the job and obtain a permit. I doubt that the plumber is making a killing on the filing.
The two gas explosions in the last couple of years – East Harlem and Lower East Side – is the source of the increased interest in gas work at the DOB.

eman134 | 8 years and 9 months ago

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JCM is bang on…everyone is walking on eggshells when it comes to gas work

mgemodi | 8 years and 9 months ago

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It cost $200 according to DOB’s website to file an application according to this fee schedule online
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/pdf/filing_fees.pdf

that states that if the work is under 25K does not even need plans to be approved or an architect.

What is the other $1440 the expedtier. What are they doing and how can justify charging 1400 to stand in line to file a permit?

In the days of Google and internet it hard to just make a price without giving its rationale. All industries are being disrupted by the web one way or the other.

daveinbedstuy | 8 years and 9 months ago

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Maybe all “industries” but not everything to do with the gubment. These people are civil servants, and unionized probably. They can’t be asked to learn new things, adapt or become more efficient.

mgemodi | 8 years and 9 months ago

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@ daveinbedstuy your being sarcastic correct? The current version of the DOB was built by the Hizzoner and promoted being efficient. The expediter told me that the $1500 was for insurance. What insurance? How is an expediter required to have insurance and for what and how does that concern my house?

I think if the expediter process were exposed for what it really is a bunch of people who stand in line for busy people they would lose on a lot of money.

Oh well New York busineses learn the hardway. It happened with Taxi cabs which got beat by uber and lyft and it will happen to blue collar guys as well. I will get on my computer and email the head of D.O.B. to ask him to explain this process and why expediter are needed

mgemodi | 8 years and 9 months ago

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To make matters worst the plumber can use e-file to submit for a permit being that its a limited alterations so there is no need to get an expediter at all or even submit plans according to DOB.

https://a810-efiling.nyc.gov/eRenewal/loginER.jsp

some of these providers are running a racked.

ellenlourie | 8 years and 9 months ago

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> @jamesplumbingquestions1
> Is the plumber suppose to give me a certificate after he performs a gas test or affidavit that the line is compliant.
Plumber has to post permit on the door or window in visible from outside place. After the job is done he can produce proof that gas authorization received and permit is closed, if asked.

Regarding permit, work permission request must be accompanied by asbestos report from certified asbestos tester. It usually cost in the area of $400-$500 per permit, regardless how it is filed.

Master Plvmber | 8 years and 9 months ago

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“I think if the expediter process were exposed for what it really is a bunch of people who stand in line for busy people they would lose on a lot of money.”

You don’t know what expediters do then.

mgemodi | 8 years and 9 months ago

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glad you chimed in @master plumber. I also wanted to ask why do plumbers not e-file the paperwork themselves for permits that are Limited Alteration Applications. “I mean lawyers go to court to file motions for a client. Doctors write up reports to send to insurance companies for payment. Middlemen such as expediter in the plumber trade for jobs that require simple filing tend to increase the cost of job and pass this expense on to customer.

No plumber has been able to answering that question nor address how e-filing allows them file for a permit without going down to D.O.B.
In your opinion what role would an expediter play if a job was under 25k needed no plans or drawings approval and entailed replacing unions on gas pipes with right and left nipples and couplings. Why would the plumber need an expediter for that job?

mgemodi | 8 years and 9 months ago

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What even more ironic is that plumbers are exempted for having to register as class 1 filing representatives (expediters) according to D.O.B. website. My question is why do licensed plumbers performing jobs that are considered LAA by DOB use class 1 filing representatives when they themselves are exempt from having to register and or they apply for said permit online.. Now a class 2 representative I understand their purpose completely you even need a college degree from an architectural or engineering school to be able to apply as a class 2 representative.

eman134 | 8 years and 9 months ago

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james…you do realize that you sound slightly insane? you have taken the “why are plumbers in nyc expensive ” thing to a a whole new level…if you think that you can do better, get a plumbing lisence and open your own discount plumbing shop

eileengray | 8 years and 9 months ago

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The DOB doesn’t function for contractors who actually work in the field. Being tied to a device – IPad, smart phone – is not second nature to many smaller plumbing operations. So in order to survive in the new DOB digital environment, these businesses are at the mercy of expediters to do the DOB work. Don’t expect anything to get cheaper when younger plumbers take over. .

newtomehouse | 8 years and 9 months ago

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Im with eman…your multiple rants on plumbing are a bit much. If you so strongly believe that you can do it better go get your plumbing license and put all the existing guys out of business.

mgemodi | 8 years and 9 months ago

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My multiple rants. Plumber charging customers additional fees for a middle man is extortion. Is the average plumber that ignorant when it comes to knowing how to file paperwork to get permit to perform their jobs. What is worst is the DOB made it easy for plumbers to get rid of red tape on certain jobs by creating an e-file system. I could never imagine a lawyer who says to his client I don’t want or know how to efile your documents in court so I will have to charge you extra to have some take them to the courthouse.

Actually I will get an expediters license for fun and cut out the middle man.

Its only $310 and 16 hour course according to DOB website.
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/buildings/industry/become-a-class-1-filing-representative.page

In terms of the plumbers if they are exempt from being registered to file form under Section 28-416.2 of the New York City Administrative Code. Said reasoning being that they they are suppose to know how to fill out the form or e-file the forms themselves as license professionals and not need a middle man. I will steer clear away from those plumbers that do not know how to file a form a permit themselves to perform an LAA job.

Why would I pay a plumber and added fee for something he or she is suppose to know how to do as license professional in the first place. Trust me change is going to come now that this is on my radar. Only in New York City do you have a middleman for blue collar profession.

dorkofwindsor | 8 years and 9 months ago

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“I could never imagine a lawyer who says to his client I don’t want or know how to efile your documents in court so I will have to charge you extra to have some take them to the courthouse.”

really bad example, as paperwork is a lawyer’s business. paperwork is not naturally a plumber’s business, in fact go do plumbing for a day and see what a natural complement paperwork seems like after you have been working sewer pipes all day. if you see your plumber walking around with iPads billing you and showing you schematics, then yes it would seem unreasonable. I have never met such a plumber.

But, yes i agree, your rant is not making you look too bright.

eman134 | 8 years and 9 months ago

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i am sure all of the” ignorant and stupid” plumbers will beat a path to your door once you get your expediters license…lol… why not go for a plumbing license as well.. it only takes years of working under a licensed plumber and passing several exams…should be a piece of cake for a schmuck like you

murph | 8 years and 9 months ago

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Unless National Grid has turned off your service why are you going crazy here.

espeon | 8 years and 9 months ago

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“Trust me change is going to come now that this is on my radar.” OK Mr. Hubris, but first you’ll have to cease your lamentations, otherwise you’ll never have enough time to address this grave matter.