Boiler seems empty, not sure why?

So I usually flush the rusty water out of the gas boiler once a month or so, just run it until it’s clear. I went to do that today and nothing came out and the water fill glass was empty. Boiler has an automatic refill which had both a green and red light lit up and it didn’t kick on to refill.
Obviously the boiler isn’t being used now but any ideas what the issue could be?
And can I leave it as it until our pre-heating season servicing or could it cause issues by leaving it completely empty for next few months?
If helpful, it’s a gas boiler for a 1-pipe steam radiator system. Thank you all for any advice!

stickerhappy

in Heating and Cooling 3 years and 9 months ago

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Master Plvmber | 3 years and 9 months ago

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I guess the OP didn’t like my answer. Too snarky? Too know-it-all-y?
Don’t act surprised.

hkapstein | 3 years and 9 months ago

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That seems to be true, I have not seen that type of feeder before, it looks like it probably needs weekly blowdowns.

If in fact there is a leak in the return piping, the boiler should be continuously filling with water, if it’s a slow leak, it should refill to the set level periodically. I’d also be interested to see what is on that service tag.

Master Plvmber | 3 years and 9 months ago

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Your leak is in the return piping. The Hartford Loop is installed too low for that boiler which is why it’s completely draining out beyond a level that could be seen in the sight glass. In other words, you basically have no Hartford Loop, or if you prefer, yours is ineffective.
Urbandad’s suggestion to check the LWCO probe is solid as part of any boiler service but that device is in place only to interrupt power to the burner circuit, so it’s just as likely the probe is fine and doing all you’re asking it to do which is only to turn on a red light and *maybe* stop the boiler from firing up.. That LWCO can’t be wired to feed water into your system since your feeder uses a mechanical switch and is, for some odd reason, a 120-volt device anyway. You’ve got what I call a Frankenboiler. It looks like it’s been altered and “fixed” by many hands at various skill levels over the years with no one taking the whole of the heating plant into consideration. [-brownstoner-1smG-8d6076bfd69c48b8a6492553e10b4860](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:rnUn:brownstoner1smg8d6076bfd69c48b8a6492553e10b486.jpg.jpg)

hkapstein | 3 years and 9 months ago

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The probe should be pulled and inspected and probably replaced, but before that, is it possible that that blue valve is closed?

As for the reset button, it wouldn’t do any good if there isn’t anyone around who understands what to do besides press it, and could lead in theory to the house freezing in winter, although probably not in a brownstone. An alternative, or perhaps an addition to the manual reset is something like a hydrolevel feeder that shows exactly how much water was fed into the boiler so you can check if the boiler is consuming water. But you do need to check, because constantly refilling the boiler will cause corrosion in the boiler and plumbing system.

Where did teh water go? Well it is a steam boiler, so perhaps it became steam?

Guest User | 3 years and 9 months ago

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string(6) "201692"

turn off the power, turn back on and see if any water is being fed into the boiler….and get a heating pro in sooner than later…you dont want to deal with this under the gun in heating season

Guest User | 3 years and 9 months ago

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right you are MP…thats a 802-24 not an 802-M-24….auto reset that cycles off after 5 attempts, not manual reset…so the auto feed is either not working, or set up to feed too slowly or too short a time

stickerhappy | 3 years and 9 months ago

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Last few… [68100215-B660-447E-BE67-2B4DFD8A3071](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:uV4b:68100215b660447ebe672b4dfd8a3071.jpeg.jpg) [EE9EBCD6-9C24-46E4-A17E-F3EE4791B2DA](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:9mVs:ee9ebcd69c2446e4a17ef3ee4791b2da.jpeg.jpg) [25543418-1215-4757-AEE9-599F619DBFD6](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:lxfH:2554341812154757aee9599f619dbfd6.jpeg.jpg)

stickerhappy | 3 years and 9 months ago

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stickerhappy | 3 years and 9 months ago

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Master Plvmber | 3 years and 9 months ago

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Please post a couple more wide pictures around the boiler with more light. I don’t think that’s a reset button on that low water cutoff (LWCO). I think it’s a test button. This could be a long conversation about LWCOs and the need for the type of unit that has both a test button *and a reset button, but I’ll spare you. For now, your water went somewhere, losing it didn’t trigger your feeder, and you’re missing a manual reset LWCO. You’ve got some stuff to work out.

hkapstein | 3 years and 9 months ago

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Why has nobody suggested pulling and cleaning the probe? That should be the first step if the fill valve(ie low water cutoff) ain’t woikin(that’s my plumber voice). Well after reseting or power cycling it anyway.

andriywww1990 | 3 years and 9 months ago

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in my house they do not seem to leak by the boiler and that may be because the boiler has been changed twice and the pipes around it maybe much newer. the problems in my house are on the older pipes, a little further from the boiler.

stickerhappy | 3 years and 9 months ago

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    string(20) "andysclass@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(22) "/forums/users/bknites/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:32:57"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(12) "stickerhappy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(100776)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I see, but in your experience when you don’t see the leak, what are those hidden leaky spots usually— someplace on or around the boiler itself or the risers or what?

lkrshacmzcy | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5124 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5166 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209518"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bqvt72Mt4bRnZYx4l2.8v65b1dA59S/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "artjimenez78@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-07-02 16:32:25"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209518)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I think this is what we are trying to say: you may not see the leak but likely there is one if the water is dropping that low.
There are a lot of places it can leak without you seeing…

lkrshacmzcy | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5160 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5127 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209518"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bqvt72Mt4bRnZYx4l2.8v65b1dA59S/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "artjimenez78@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-07-02 16:32:25"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209518)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I think this is what we are trying to say: you may not see the leak but likely there is one if the water is dropping that low.
There are a lot of places it can leak without you seeing…

stickerhappy | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5158 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5163 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "100776"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(12) "stickerhappy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B22w2UCKIlYWBOfDUi2mGifya.FPZ01"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(12) "stickerhappy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(20) "andysclass@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(22) "/forums/users/bknites/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:32:57"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(12) "stickerhappy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(100776)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Thanks guys- I don’t see any obvious leak location. Never saw water on boiler room floor, no leaky risers or mains in basement. It’s not a big building so seems like there are only so many spots it could leak, right?

lkrshacmzcy | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5127 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5124 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209518"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bqvt72Mt4bRnZYx4l2.8v65b1dA59S/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "artjimenez78@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-07-02 16:32:25"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209518)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Heating Systems, for the most part, are closed loop systems.
I know what Eman means but Gennady is right. If the water has gone that low, there is a reason.
Also do not assume because you do not see a leak there isn’t one….

lkrshacmzcy | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5163 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5160 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209518"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bqvt72Mt4bRnZYx4l2.8v65b1dA59S/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "artjimenez78@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-07-02 16:32:25"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209518)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Heating Systems, for the most part, are closed loop systems.
I know what Eman means but Gennady is right. If the water has gone that low, there is a reason.
Also do not assume because you do not see a leak there isn’t one….

ellenlourie | 3 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5124 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5158 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209451"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "ellenlourie"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BW7BCPC4MhhU4md6aHcLH/64c1GhM1/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "ellenlourie"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "ellen.lourie@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-06-29 12:47:36"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "ellenlourie"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209451)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Boiler is empty for a reason. Resetting manual reset low water cut off will not address the issue. Where did the water go? Ask this question.