Tenant wants lead testing.

Y ou mean testing?
for an obvious rea sons I could not recommend the comany who did that testing for us. The guy who did he testing did a good job reading and collecting tests.
But the the sloppiness with sen ding results and how they dealt w it h our questions – I w ould not recommend them.

lucie

in General Discussion 2 years and 2 months ago

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RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 2 years and 3 months ago

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You certainly have ample grounds to question their accuracy!

lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago

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It is more the accuracy of technology.
I think inspector did a good job.

But I am doing a review (data science is in my blood) and a couple of things jumps out.
while avg lead level is 1.3 on all “positive” except of one room,
this room is 11+ avg
and all was painted/renovated at the same time and in the same manner.

I found this: http://m.tri-techtesting.com/?url=http://www%2Etri%2Dtechtesting%2Ecom%2Fare%2Dyou%2Dsure%2Dyou%2Dhave%2Dlead%2Dpaint%2D%2Ehtml#2900

I am going to inspect several things in person this Saturday
and if it is sounds of some interest for this Forum
I can post on this topic more.

The thread is already long as is but hopefully useful.

lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago

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It is more the accuracy of technology.
I think inspector did a good job.

But I am doing a review (data science is in my blood) and a couple of things jumps out.
while avg lead level is 1.3 on all “positive” except of one room,
this room is 11+ avg
and all was painted/renovated at the same time and in the same manner.

I found this: http://m.tri-techtesting.com/?url=http://www%2Etri%2Dtechtesting%2Ecom%2Fare%2Dyou%2Dsure%2Dyou%2Dhave%2Dlead%2Dpaint%2D%2Ehtml#2900

I am going to inspect several things in person this Saturday
and if it is sounds of some interest for this Forum
I can post on this topic more.

The thread is already long as is but hopefully useful.

cate | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Strange indeed. Do please keep us posted.

wfrxmhzynkiopcra | 2 years and 3 months ago

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I can’t believe that the doctors would freak the parents out so much and for so long on an inaccurate test like that. You’d think that they would push to do the blood test and get back the results asap instead of leaving everyone in limbo for 2 weeks.

wfrxmhzynkiopcra | 2 years and 3 months ago

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I can’t believe that the doctors would freak the parents out so much and for so long on an inaccurate test like that. You’d think that they would push to do the blood test and get back the results asap instead of leaving everyone in limbo for 2 weeks.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago

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More education is needed for all of us.

lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago

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I was thinking about this doctor…
He/She simply recommended tenants to have apartment tested after the first pricks test.
Considering such a small reading, 3.8, that could be a mistake and gotten from everywhere vs high reading that most probably indicates permanent exposure
( high chance is that permanent exposure is from home).

Just by default to recommend to put a blame at the apartment…
And to make landlords to go through hell.
However…
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/advisory/acclpp/actions-blls.htm spells clear:
” Initial Screening Blood Lead Level
Healthcare providers may use a capillary or venous sample for initial BLL screening.
If the capillary results are equal to or greater than CDC’s Blood Lead Reference Value (BLRV), [b] providers should collect a venous sample [/b]. If a venous sample was taken during the initial screening test, skip to Confirmed Venous Blood Lead Level. ”

Also, there is a link of 55% false positive research for prick test:

https://journals.lww.com/jphmp/Abstract/2019/01001/Screening_for_Elevated_Blood_Lead_Levels_.8.aspx#:~:text= Blood%20lead%20tests%20on%20capillary%20samples%20are%20a%20useful%20screening,result%20on%20a%20capillary%20sample.

Well, I collected all this information, it could be helpful if ( god forbid) anybody else needs this.

lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago

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I was thinking about this doctor…
He/She simply recommended tenants to have apartment tested after the first pricks test.
Considering such a small reading, 3.8, that could be a mistake and gotten from everywhere vs high reading that most probably indicates permanent exposure
( high chance is that permanent exposure is from home).

Just by default to recommend to put a blame at the apartment…
And to make landlords to go through hell.
However…
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/advisory/acclpp/actions-blls.htm spells clear:
” Initial Screening Blood Lead Level
Healthcare providers may use a capillary or venous sample for initial BLL screening.
If the capillary results are equal to or greater than CDC’s Blood Lead Reference Value (BLRV), [b] providers should collect a venous sample [/b]. If a venous sample was taken during the initial screening test, skip to Confirmed Venous Blood Lead Level. ”

Also, there is a link of 55% false positive research for prick test:

https://journals.lww.com/jphmp/Abstract/2019/01001/Screening_for_Elevated_Blood_Lead_Levels_.8.aspx#:~:text= Blood%20lead%20tests%20on%20capillary%20samples%20are%20a%20useful%20screening,result%20on%20a%20capillary%20sample.

Well, I collected all this information, it could be helpful if ( god forbid) anybody else needs this.

Guest User | 2 years and 3 months ago

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NYC often makes the landlord out to be the one and only bad guy / fall guy. This is a prime example

lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Last Saturday we went to this apartment with xrf report in hand.
Report indicated that all the paint is intact but
we took original drawers from original built-in that read positive (2) and replaced faces and pulls ( we did not have time to strip original pulls but we found almost identical reproduction very reasonable online , I can share the source, if you are interested, it is an American, not overseas).
We just checked to make sure that indeed all surfaces that read positive did not have any cracks and de

lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Last Saturday we went to this apartment with xrf report in hand.
Report indicated that all the paint is intact but
we took original drawers from original built-in that read positive (2) and replaced faces and pulls ( we did not have time to strip original pulls but we found almost identical reproduction very reasonable online , I can share the source, if you are interested, it is an American, not overseas).
We just checked to make sure that indeed all surfaces that read positive did not have any cracks and de

lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago

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the rest is disappeared.

lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago

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the rest is disappeared.

lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago

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I will try to continue:
Average for the apartment positive surfaces except of one room is 1.3 ( 4 doors contributed pretty high, we removed 2 doors already for stripping, the highest was the closet door 2.7).
All paint is marked as intact but we will fix the rest 2 one door at a time, one needs to be replaced anyhow.
Now about that one room that is an anomaly.
It has sheetrock ceiling ( we had leak Spring 2019), plaster ceiling crumbled, insurance company was involved. Ceiling was completely removed and replaced.
Report shows 12.8.
We had replaced adjoining room ceiling during at the same time. It was not as damaged, but we worried about stability.
The same batch of sheetrock, the same paint from HD, even the same new crown mouldings in both room.
One room is negative, another ( the nursery) is 12.8.

Walls also have intact paint, and also read high in his room, around 11-12.
I have no explanation of this.
We tested everything: ceiling, walls with swabs – negative.

Inspector says they think plaster from the ceiling was not completely removed.
Well, another larger bedr oom still has all original plaster above the thinnest sheetrock – this ceiling was reading negative.

Now we have to explain it ( avg 12 for the room ) somehow to our tenants.
Paint is intact, inspector stressed that we do not have to do anything,
but our tenants sure going to freak out.
My only guess is gas light pipes?
(no water pipes due to configuration, we already know pretty well when old water pipes were running before the replacement).
Room is pretty small.

lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago

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I will try to continue:
Average for the apartment positive surfaces except of one room is 1.3 ( 4 doors contributed pretty high, we removed 2 doors already for stripping, the highest was the closet door 2.7).
All paint is marked as intact but we will fix the rest 2 one door at a time, one needs to be replaced anyhow.
Now about that one room that is an anomaly.
It has sheetrock ceiling ( we had leak Spring 2019), plaster ceiling crumbled, insurance company was involved. Ceiling was completely removed and replaced.
Report shows 12.8.
We had replaced adjoining room ceiling during at the same time. It was not as damaged, but we worried about stability.
The same batch of sheetrock, the same paint from HD, even the same new crown mouldings in both room.
One room is negative, another ( the nursery) is 12.8.

Walls also have intact paint, and also read high in his room, around 11-12.
I have no explanation of this.
We tested everything: ceiling, walls with swabs – negative.

Inspector says they think plaster from the ceiling was not completely removed.
Well, another larger bedr oom still has all original plaster above the thinnest sheetrock – this ceiling was reading negative.

Now we have to explain it ( avg 12 for the room ) somehow to our tenants.
Paint is intact, inspector stressed that we do not have to do anything,
but our tenants sure going to freak out.
My only guess is gas light pipes?
(no water pipes due to configuration, we already know pretty well when old water pipes were running before the replacement).
Room is pretty small.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago

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op, while i admire your educating us about all of this, i need to caution you that as a business owner, i do not always reveal the full extent of my knowledge on this board in case i am ever on the wrong end of legal action. what i am saying is, if we tell everyone everything we know about something and then a couple years later get sued, it would be very possible that an attorney or insurance company might find something written here to use as evidence. if we are “ignorant” of something and do not know something it is one thing. we might be able to say “we did not know”. if we reveal a lot and something goes wrong later, the attorneys will say we knew and because we failed to act or acted in the wrong manner, we were “negligent”. i would be afraid it would be used to go after “punitive” damages. of course i am not an attorney but in these situations, it is best to play it safe.

above you say you replaced something. of course, we think you are doing the right thing. but someone else could twist that around and say you did not replace enough of something or should have tested further. or perhaps they will want to know who made the changes and ask about their qualifications. as well intended as you are, this could all work against you. I once heard this in property management: “no good deed goes unpunished”. it is true.

i am sure we all appreciate what you are teaching us, but for your sake, hold your cards a little closer to your chest.

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 2 years and 3 months ago

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AND, if you’re ever questioned under oath the safest answers are “yes”, “no”. and “I don’t remember “. 🙂

lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Yes, this is so true.