Interesting Heat Pump Story on PBS NewsHour tonight

DOes anyone have any new information about geothermal being done in Brooklyn ?
We have reached out to Dandelion, but they say they don’t come to Brooklyn. There is room to drill on my property and i would like to take advantage of this worthwhile option.
Any experience or advice would be helpful.
( not sure if this is where I should be puttting this ?)

dindy

in General Discussion 2 years and 5 months ago

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carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Also, I’ve given a lot of weight to the fact that I am no longer combusting what is basically diesel fuel in the basement of my home to heat it. Not sure I can quantify how much that’s worth in dollars, but it’s an added piece of mind for me during the months when the electricity bills come in higher than anticipated.

carlinepierre27 | 2 years and 6 months ago

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We put in mini-splits for A/C in 2020 and at the beginning of winter I used the units to heat the house for a few weeks. I must say, I never felt warm. Having air blowing always made the house feel drafty. After a couple of weeks, I gave up and switched on our old gas-fired steam boiler. So cozy to have our steam radiators back on line. NYS was giving incentives to remove the boiler and I am so glad I didn’t take the bait.

JohnHancock | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Part 2.
Gas stoves and electric cooking!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgnIR18Te5Y&ab_channel=PBSNewsHour

carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 6 months ago

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BayRidge, That’s a shame. What system did you get? Was it sized correctly? I was so skeptical of the mini-splits being able to heat our entire house and was beyond pleasantly surprised at how well they work. We haven’t fired up the oil heat once yet this winter and not sure that we’ll ever look back.

randolph | 2 years and 6 months ago

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to get the incentives i had to deactivate my boiler which basically meant cutting and capping the pipes that led to the radiators…..but they left all the pipes so i could easily have it all put back together BUT so far i am pleased with how well they are heating the space. it just isnt as cheap as i had hoped

winbrown | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Do those incentives exist in NYC?

randolph | 2 years and 6 months ago

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> @katiekeating
> Do those incentives exist in NYC?
I am not sure, mine were through central hudson and mitsubishi. I would think con ed offers something similar. The installer should know what is available since they are the ones getting paid directly from the utility.

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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From the ConEd incentive website
Air-Source Heat Pump Incentive Status
Due to tremendous response, we have exhausted funding for air-source heat pump projects and can no longer offer incentives at this time.

Master Plvmber | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Not the same thing, I know, but just like no one wants to be the one to say asbestos was the most effective insulating material we may ever know, no one wants to say that heating with heat pumps is not a good solution everywhere. Throwing a 40-year-old, 600-lb boiler along with 2,000 lbs of radiators into a landfill to install a newly manufactured heating system that will require component replacement every 5 years does not put you right with the environment.
This stuff belongs in new construction, sure, but retrofitting a leaky 100 year-old home?
Do you know what every person in that video has in common? They all have buckets of disposable income. Remember: no one buys a Tesla because they don’t have money for gas.

randolph | 2 years and 6 months ago

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I left my boiler in the basement and still use it for hot water. it sounds like a bomb going off every time it fires and the floor in the room above it shakes, which drove me crazy when it was firing all the time to heat the whole house but luckily that isn’t the case anymore. the heat pumps also will provide cooling in the summer, which the house did not have before. the windows are relatively new and a few owners ago the house was gutted and insulated so no drafts. i also don;t have “buckets of disposable income” (or a tesla).

Master Plvmber | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Well you spend a ridiculous amount of time on this forum and you’ve got a second home, so I guess I took a shot that you’ve got some extra dough.

brokelin | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Buckets of dough, or not, it is certainly more feasible (and likely cheaper) to insulate a single-family house upstate somewhere then it is to try to sufficiently insulate a 120-150 year old Brooklyn brownstone. Yes, it would take gobs of money, and it will cost more in the city, I’d imagine, even with less actual exposed wall space, given how they were built, and the costs that go with having work done in the more built-up city.

Though you still have to worry about air infiltration from houses on either side (just like water in the basement, these houses are inextricably connected) so you might have to retrofit all walls. And they seem to have been built with no insulation at all at the roof or in the front or back sides. Just stand next to newly-installed double paned windows in a brownstone, even if the were installed tightly (and maybe even some insulation added around them), and feel the cold coming directly through the wall part, not at the windows’ edges.

And then take into account trying to do it in one that was built as flats originally, or a house divided into flats when converted more recently, as someone asked about doing in an 8-flat coop or condo on here recently, and you’re really dealing with a lot of people who have to be willing to spend a lot to tear their units apart and retrofit their buildings sufficiently so as to work with less heat production. And while some run warmer and are willing to set the thermostat lower, it is hard to made that decision for others in the building whose bodies or circumstances may need more heat (I sure need more heat sitting at home now working at my desk, unmoving, when I don’t even get the exercise of running around an office building to get to the bathroom, coffee machine, other peoples’ offices, or outside to get lunch, than I did when I was out of the home all day and most evenings). Or to make that decision for people who might buy the units in the future when people sell and move on. Sure, in a perfect world, we’d all retrofit our homes entirely, but that’s currently an option only available to the fairly wealthy in the city, I’d think.

brokelin | 2 years and 6 months ago

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I heard that PBS piece on the radio, and was surprised to learn from it – I think it was on that show I heard it – that “now you’re cooking with gas” is a slogan that the gas companies cooked up to promote gas stoves to sell gas (I shouldn’t be surprised, but I was…). Though I don’t know when cooking with electricity became possible – I imagine what most gas stoves replaced originally was not electric cooking, but other combustion methods (wood, coal, other forms of petroleum…)

carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Heat pump technology has been used to retrofit older homes throughout Europe for 10+ years. Just because the technology is new to some of you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. Also, it was immensely more difficult to insulate my stand-alone home in Westchester with dozens of windows on each floor than it was to insulate my brownstone.

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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i think the heat pump boilers will be the wave of the future…not the current batch of mini splits available in the U S
https://group.vattenfall.com/uk/newsroom/pressreleases/2022/vattenfall-launches-heat-pump-solution-to-replace-gas-boilers

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Replacing steam systems such as I have in my home is a whole other set of problems… I’d have to repipe the building to hydronic heat to use a high temp heat pump boiler

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 2 years and 6 months ago

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The manufacturer doesn’t seem to think that heat pumps will be ideal for areas lol ours:

Heat pumps are often the best solution to decarbonising heating in suburban or rural areas where properties are dispersed. In densely populated areas, the most cost-effective solution is to capture waste heat, from sources such as energy recovery plants, and supply it to homes and businesses via district heating networks.“

carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Eman, it’s not one or the other. They serve different purposes for different home configurations. For example, a brownstone with a gas-fired hydronic radiator system could certainly benefit from a heat pump boiler conversion if existing radiator runs and locations are sufficient. If you have a steam system, why would you re-pipe instead of using mini-splits? The whole point of a mini-split system is it makes retrofitting in older homes a whole lot easier than re-piping or making major ductwork changes. Sure, I would always prefer hydronic heat over blown air, but the cost to pipe the entire house would have been silly. We also have a bad duct layout in my house. Heat didn’t directly hit every room and the return registers are in silly locations. Sure we could have just paired a Mitsubishi unit with our Carrier blower and used existing ductwork, but the mini-splits allowed us to hit every single room on every floor without major renovations to ductwork. ConEd wouldn’t have given me 32k worth of rebates for the project if the technology didn’t work.

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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I’m a heating professional and have installed mitsubishi mini splits because clients want them… still think that their heating quality is crap… ConED gave you rebates because they want to capture your business, just like the old “cooking with gas” promotions in the 1950s and 60s… they are going to recoup that 32 grand over time as electric rates rise … remember the adage “never take advice from someone who is trying to sell you something”