Interesting Heat Pump Story on PBS NewsHour tonight

DOes anyone have any new information about geothermal being done in Brooklyn ?
We have reached out to Dandelion, but they say they don’t come to Brooklyn. There is room to drill on my property and i would like to take advantage of this worthwhile option.
Any experience or advice would be helpful.
( not sure if this is where I should be puttting this ?)

dindy

in General Discussion 2 years and 5 months ago

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JohnHancock | 2 years and 6 months ago

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https://youtu.be/RdzjrVwWz4o

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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i think that the simplest solution for hot water (hydronic ) heating would be to wait for the introduction of high temp heat pump boilers into the US….not sure if it will be enough
https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/advice/high-temperature-heat-pumps
steam heat , as in my home, would require repiping the entire building

cate | 2 years and 6 months ago

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So excited about the potential of geothermal! Including when combined with solar and, say, Passive House, when appropriate. So exciting not to have to pay for or to consume oil, gas, and electric.

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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a colleague of mine was trying to get NYC interested in building out a geothermal infrastructure, much like the current gas system, with geothermal wells spaced evenly with the ability to tap off them at every building… the idea didn’t get much traction… probably have to wait till NatGrid figures out a way to make money off of it

cate | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Wow, Eman, that’s a wrinkle I had not considered.

colonialrevival | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Eman, that would be absolutely bananas, in a great way. Maybe while they’re at it with the 21st century modernizations, they can add a 20th century modernization as well: converting the sewer system into two pipe.

workisfun | 2 years and 6 months ago

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I would love geothermal, but city-wide? That would take longer than the 2nd ave subway (>80yrs) and be a monumental disruption to neighborhoods, no? I think about that stretch of 6th ave in park slope. The city was working there for like 2 years at least on what? And then, how many homes flooded during that process? Sorry, I’ve been kinda disillusioned with the livability of of NYC lately.

chemosphere | 2 years and 6 months ago

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has anyone here actually done geothermal on a NYC row house? What permits are involved? What is expense like compared to ordinary mini-splits?

workisfun | 2 years and 6 months ago

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I inquired about geothermal years ago on this forum. One reply was from a homeowner in Gowanus, who had done it in his backyard, straight down.

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20140911/gramercy/gramercy-power-couples-noisy-geothermal-well-project-infuriates-neighbors/

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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https://www.achrnews.com/articles/90652-installing-geothermal-in-the-middle-of-the-concrete-jungle

Guest User | 2 years and 6 months ago

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There’s also one in tribeca but that was a new build

gururoofing | 2 years and 6 months ago

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@workisfun, would you please share the post from the homeowner in Gowanus? I wasn’t able to find it in a forum search and would love to learn more about it.

randolph | 2 years and 6 months ago

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I recently had my house upstate converted from oil baseboard heat to mini split heat pumps. there are 6 indoor units each with their own outdoor unit, 54,000 BTU total. all the equipment and install was just under $20k after various discounts from Mitsubishi and Central Hudson (they are going to sell you a lot more electricity so they seem eager to subsidize getting these things in homes).

I am only in the house half the time, keeping all the thermostats at 62 (lowest possible setting in HEAT mode) when not home and around 66-72 when I am there. My first month’s electric bill was over $600, which is more than what the monthly oil cost was. I am hoping this was largely due to an estimated bill the prior month and the extreme cold around Christmas……but I have to admit I am very skeptical of these “its so much cheaper claims” when electricity costs keep rising. On the upside, the heat pumps work great and they are quiet and I like that you can really control the temperature in each room. So in the end I do not regret doing the “upgrade” and going green or whate ver, but I would also love to feel like this was a way to save money as well. I guess installing solar is the next step but I can’t afford that right now

chemosphere | 2 years and 6 months ago

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so for geothermal you can’t do it in an attached rowhouse backyard, right? because you can’t get the drills into the yard? so it’s got to be in the front of the house? That’s what I’m wondering about, the legality of drilling a hole down 100 ft in front of your house.

carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 6 months ago

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Randolph, We’ve been running our new mini-split system in lieu of oil-based forced hot air and agree with your observation that the cost with electric is either slightly higher or a wash assuming you got a good price on oil this year. It’s a hard math equation because the electricity prices fluctuate so damn much, but try to focus on total Kw/hr utilization. I am impressed at how efficient these units are. The real long-term solution, as you suggest, is solar. Just curious but why do you have each indoor unit paired with its own condenser. I’m running a 70 BTU system off two condensers. What is your peak Kw/hr utilization with this set-up on the coldest of days?

randolph | 2 years and 6 months ago

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> @twentypercentofx
> What is your peak Kw/hr utilization with this set-up on the coldest of days?
I am not sure how to find out this information, my monthly bill only tells me total khw used and the last bill i think is high because the previous month’s bill was off an estimated reading that was low. i am hoping that the bill for january is actual so i can get a better sense of monthy consumption.

the company i went with advised that having a dedicated condenser for each indoor unit would be more efficient vs. a larger condenser and a junction box going to several indoor units. the also said it would offer some peace of mind – if one condenser has a malfunction only that room would go down rather than the whole house.

carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 6 months ago

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@randolph, interesting. Seems overkill tbh and I couldn’t imagine a scenario where I have six outdoor condensers around my home but I’m sure they had their reasons. Re monitoring usage, check with your utility. Coned for example has an app that allows you to monitor real-time usage by hour, day, week, etc. I can tell that during full heat loads with all my indoor units cranked up to 71, I’m peaking at below 1.6 kWh, which is pretty remarkable for the heat output we’re getting. In fact, my old electric clothes dryer is the biggest energy suck and I can look at the graph and tell you exactly when we had it running. The condensers on the other hand run at a fairly consistent rate that fluctuates with the outdoor temp.

randolph | 2 years and 6 months ago

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  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

this is a house upstate and they sit behind the bushes and the side of the house you don’t really see, and they are small so you really don’t notice them. i think a larger, tall condenser would be uglier plus you would need more lines running all over and around the siding. i will post some photos once i can find them.

as for usage i will see if central hudson has such an app but i doubt it, they seem very behind the curve on these things.