How illegal was this gas condition?
If the gas was not included in the original job,, then that was a mistake. But amending the job to include gas does not seem like a problem because partial inspections are permitted.
hkapstein
in General Discussion 5 years and 3 months ago
41
Please log in, in order to post replies!
41 replies
penny | 5 years and 3 months ago
I am on my co-op bosrd and found out that a few years ago the building manager worked with a contractor to hide an illegal gas repair from the board for months. During a project to replace our radiator pipes, a plumber noticed that a connection on the main gas line had a leak that was previously “fixed” by someone smearing a big wad of grease over the leak. Apparently that illegal fix occured a long time earlier.
The contractors told the manager about the grease-repair, and instead of telling the board the manager worked with this plumbing contractor to hide the condition for six months while they worked out a plan. Eventually the manager told the board that our gas main needed replacement, but never mentioned the leak. He had a pretty clever plan in mind to not repair anything but instead just install new pipes parallel to the old ones, and then bottle the building and do a rapid switchover from the old pipes to the new pipes in one day with DOB and ConEd to avoid a long gas outage. The plumber and manager were apparently working on this plan over those six months. Cl ever yes, but when I found out from our super that the manager hid this dangerous condition for months I became livid. The super got into a dispute with the manager and showed me evidence of this gas issue, which is pretty compelling.
Of course we need to fire the manager. That’s obvious. My question is: was it illegal of the manager or contractor to keep the gas running with that type of “grease” repair? Did they violate the law or was it just unethical to not tell us? Is there any agency that should be informed about this, assuming we have enough proof of what happened?
Master Plvmber | 5 years and 3 months ago
My impression is that you don’t understand this well enough to make an informed decision but you’ve decided it’s “obvious” you need to fire the Building Manager for what may very well have been a rational decision to address and monitor the condition while permanent solutions were being worked out. For many years that compound “grease” was what National Grid/Keyspan/BUG used for temporary leak repairs while owners made arrangements for field corrections by licensed plumbers. New Jersey gas utilities still sometimes use it. As a Licensed Master Plumber myself I’ll go on record as saying that of course all gas leaks should be isolated and corrected immediately but the current situation of gas hysteria in our city is a powerful driver for making practical decisions on how best to approach those corrections. Finally, there are levels of gas leaks. Not all are potentially catastrophic, but yes, they still need to be repaired asap. If the city were to go from building to building in New York confirming the absolute tightness of gas piping systems they’d have to shut half the buildings down, which is probably why they haven’t done that already.
lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 3 months ago
This is actually a great post that I hope gets more traction
lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 3 months ago
This is actually a great post that I hope gets more traction
lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 3 months ago
Above is right on all points from a practical standard. More information would be needed to tell the full story but it seems what your Manager did was with the best intentions for the building with legal code in mind; again barring the fact we do not have the entire story. One big thing here missing would be if he ever let the Utility Company know the situation.
The way Gas Utility is going to be treated soon in New York City, it has started technically but barely enforced, is the right way to do things but so different than what has been common practice for so long that it is going to be a state of hysteria for some time.
lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 3 months ago
Above is right on all points from a practical standard. More information would be needed to tell the full story but it seems what your Manager did was with the best intentions for the building with legal code in mind; again barring the fact we do not have the entire story. One big thing here missing would be if he ever let the Utility Company know the situation.
The way Gas Utility is going to be treated soon in New York City, it has started technically but barely enforced, is the right way to do things but so different than what has been common practice for so long that it is going to be a state of hysteria for some time.
daveinbedstuy | 5 years and 3 months ago
How many years ago? I suspect there is more to this story than what you’ve been “told.” Why are you taking up this cause at this point in time?
yudashasom | 5 years and 3 months ago
You couldn’t pay me to live in a co-op…
yudashasom | 5 years and 3 months ago
You should just call National Grid and DOB to come and inspect. Let use know how it goes.
mozeeatupu | 5 years and 3 months ago
You’d probably be more livid if he told everyone and the gas was shut off indefinitely.
lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 3 months ago
I was waiting for the above answer. Questions for serious responses:
If your Gas was shut off after an annual inspection from a Plumber during the new city mandated inspection, would you be upset with the Plumber?
To double up, what if the shut down was because of corroded pipe or incorrect code procedure, not even a leak?
lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 3 months ago
I was waiting for the above answer. Questions for serious responses:
If your Gas was shut off after an annual inspection from a Plumber during the new city mandated inspection, would you be upset with the Plumber?
To double up, what if the shut down was because of corroded pipe or incorrect code procedure, not even a leak?
Guest User | 5 years and 3 months ago
It would be useless to blame your plumber…..there are numerous examples of what was code yesterday is not code today…not to mention systems age and fall apart. Rather than attempting to assess blame you should look to a way forward to correct any deficiencies.
hkapstein | 5 years and 3 months ago
Yes, everyone who owns or runs a building with gas should know how do a little gas work. That’s what the city council says anyway, unless you’re a billionaire who can afford to pay one of the 27 people who have the gas qual. It’s actually not that difficult, just twisting pipes together. Remember to use a 2 elbow swing to come off the riser so the pipe has room to move without leaking.
Guest User | 5 years and 3 months ago
it’s not clear to me whether when the contractor and manager discovered the old repair the leak was active again or they just noted that it was an inappropriate repair. there’s a big difference between the two.
Guest User | 5 years and 3 months ago
it’s not clear to me whether when the contractor and manager discovered the old repair the leak was active again or they just noted that it was an inappropriate repair. there’s a big difference between the two.
BKALLDAY | 5 years and 3 months ago
Gas is the one thing you should never screw with (as evidenced by the buildings blown up and lives lost in The Bronx and Brooklyn the last few years). It’s pricey but it is the best thing you can do to have it corrected by a licensed plumber.
ellenlourie | 5 years and 3 months ago
Any master plumber or his employee with full gas qualification must immediately notify utility about such abnormal operating condition of gas line and wait outside until utility crew arrives. That’s the law.
hkapstein | 5 years and 3 months ago
Technically the law says you can’t drive 56 in a 55, and you can’t give someone a plastic bag with their groceries. How would you compare the importance of these laws with the administrative procedure you described?