DOF inspection

@augustiner “renovation cost will be added to assessed value 1 to 1 ” So a 50K renovation increases assessed value by 50,000 in the few years after renovation? I haven’t seen that happening but maybe i misunderstood.

Guest User | 4 years and 3 months ago

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Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago

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Can anyone share their experience with a DOF inspection. Did it help or hurt? Can you tell the DOF you do not want an inspection?

someonecalleddob | 4 years and 4 months ago

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Whats the reason for the inspection?

Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago

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They told me to file a request for review. I did and submitted proof as to why I was overassessed and comparables. Now they want to inspect . However that’s not going to show issues behind walls or mechanical, code issues that need to be fixed. Also it won’t show past issues that have already been resolved but have delayed occupancy.

krobertson

in General Discussion 4 years and 4 months ago

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Assuming this is for residential and not commercial property. I wouldn’t risk a DoF inspection unless you’re trying to prove the market value of your property is significantly less than the effective market value on your annual property tax statement. Taxes are based on the effective market value so if you’re just trying to just change the market value on your taxes its not going to change your actual taxes paid.
From a story I once heard from one of my contractors, he had a client that insisted on trying to save $300/year on his property taxes and filed a challenge. Had DoF come do a inspection and the inspector disagreed with the condition/ usage / or classification of the property (I don’t remember which) and instead reassessed it at a higher value and the client ended up paying thousands of dollar more in property tax.

Lesson I took from the story is don’t request unnecessary inspections, especially if its a small potential reward. You never know what else the inspector might see / or decide upon that might screw you at the end. With that said, I definitely k now of buildings successfully challenging their commercial property taxes for storefronts, since I believe those are based on estimated rents. But those are usually filed by legal firms.

Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago

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Thank you for your helpful response. I understand the relationship between effective market value and market value and know it’s affect my taxes one way or another. In my case it can’t really go up as they already reassessed and increased it without physical examination- they said so themselves. Commercial is a different story and yes plenty of law firms willing to help with that because there is a lot of money to be made while the rest of us suffer. I don’t think I can refuse inspection anyway and since it went up already they can’t increase it further for this year.

Augustiner | 4 years and 4 months ago

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If you want no inspection, just don’t let them in

Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago

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It’s virtual due to Covid so I could ignore. If I ignore the request, the DOF assessment would go into effect so either way it’s not good.

Augustiner | 4 years and 4 months ago

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Trying to understand the system is an uphill battle. The problem is that taxation of property in NYC is not fair, equal and transparent as it is required by law.
The basis of taxation is unclear. Property is not based on market value. It is also not based on purchase price. It’s somewhere in between or to the side. But the DOF only gives you the opportunity to contest market value, which is pointless because you are being taxed on some magic formula that uses market value as an initial number.
The goal of the DOF is that everyone pays about 3 times the amount they currently pay now. So if you are paying anywhere between 6 and 12,000 for a 3 family in Brooklyn you have no chance to lower it.
I am paying 20k for a 3 fam brownstone in bed stuy. I still have no idea why. There is no one who can answer, and I have been trying for 3 years now to get it changed – so far without success

Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago

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@Augustiner, you nailed it. I’m at a loss too. It makes me want to scream.

krobertson

in General Discussion 4 years and 4 months ago

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@janedrew I’m curious what prompted DoF to reassess your property to the higher rate in the first place?

@Augustiner $20k for a 3 fam brownstone is definitely on the higher end. Sounds like you are probably probably paying close to the full uncapped property tax rate either because your brownstone is a newer construction or someone filed an Alt-1 renovation / CO change on your property some time ago? There’s an article the Times about it a few years back.

Lots of people are either paying artificially low property taxes due to the 6% annual cap combined with rapid gentrification or are alternatively paying the the full tax rate due to a major renovation (CO change) or they are a new construction without a tax abatement. Also, many old condo and coops also have artificially low tax rates due to how DOF estimates the monthly rental potential of a $2MM condo/coop as $1500 a month because nearby rent stabilized comparable rent for only that much.

I know someone owns a new construction $1.4MM condo in in Harlem that pays $300 a year a taxes due to the 25year 421a tax ab atement on the property. On the flip side commercial tax rates in the city can be quite insane. I also knew someone who inherited a 1 story ~2000 sqft warehouse in Queens who said his annual property tax was $50k. I didn’t believe it until I saw myself online. He ended up selling it as he said the property tax bill took out too big of a bite of annual rental income.

Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago

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@Housefix, same reason as Augustiner I expect. Renovation took longer than expected. DOB informs DOF and even when there is no physical improvement and the taxes go up Taxation is all over the place. Some people in the area pay 8k and others pay 14k for almost exactly the same houses. Augustiner’s tax is excessive for his area. There needs to be some collective adjustment.

krobertson

in General Discussion 4 years and 4 months ago

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From what I’m aware of, DOF reviews the PW3 cost statements that your architect files with the DOB for all renovations filed. Unless the PW3 was a very minor amount they will reassess your taxes based on the cost stated in the PW3. Lost of people won’t notice it since it hits a year or 2 after the renovation and its buried as part of the annual property notice. I got hit a year after my renovation. Increased my property taxes an extra just under 1% of the total cost on the PW3. This probably another reason why a lot of folks reno without permits.

Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago

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All true and correct.

Augustiner | 4 years and 4 months ago

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It was an alt-1 job.
I think if you convert from SRO or Church to 3 family you get hit harder than a 1 fam to 2 family c of O change.
Funny aspect is that I couldn’t wait for the tax assessment because I thought it would lower my taxes from 8,000. I called for a review. They came by and bumped it to 18k. Didn’t even have to go inside. And now every year my taxes raise 1,000 every year.

No doubt about it, this random way of taxation is will kill people. It makes buildings less safe because it encourages illegal construction

resident2 | 4 years and 4 months ago

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If you have challenged your assessment, they can request that it inspected inspected. DOF inspectors are NOT DOB inspectors, so it can be rather arbitrary. If they like your housekeeping it is obviously worth more….
You need to make it look as un-renovated (poor) as possible. They re-assess on improvements. They also want to see that the house is being used as the class (occupancy) it is being assessed for.
Makes no sense …. but what in the City does? NYC “Market” Value, Assessed Value & Real Value have little to do with it. If it was taxed on real market value, none would live in the City.

cobblehillhome | 4 years and 4 months ago

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Any general guidance or personal anecdotes on how much one can expect property taxes to go up after an Alt-2 gut reno? Today they are $3,200 and I imagine next year they will jump significantly. Our neighbors had a similar reno 3 years ago, and today they taxes are $5.2k (went to $4.5 post reno) – hoping ours will be similar and not jump to $18k 🙁 (Sorry to hear this was your case, Augustiner!)

Is there a consolidated view to see the PW3 costs total? We bought from a developers so I wasn’t involved in the original filings

cobblehillhome | 4 years and 4 months ago

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Any general guidance or personal anecdotes on how much one can expect property taxes to go up after an Alt-2 gut reno? Today they are $3,200 and I imagine next year they will jump significantly. Our neighbors had a similar reno 3 years ago, and today they taxes are $5.2k (went to $4.5 post reno) – hoping ours will be similar and not jump to $18k 🙁 (Sorry to hear this was your case, Augustiner!)

Is there a consolidated view to see the PW3 costs total? We bought from a developers so I wasn’t involved in the original filings

Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago

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My PW3 costs were not all that much so it is part of the equation. You can see the PW3 on DOB . However it is not a consolidated view of accruals.

Augustiner | 4 years and 4 months ago

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    string(34) "$P$B34SD8yEA6Hi8EPJJfH83mCf4GZmmP0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(10) "augustiner"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(18) "flo@flat-peach.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(32) "http:///forums/users/augustiner/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:35:10"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(6) "August"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(45573)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

renovation cost will be added to assessed value 1 to 1 (what the DOF estimates the real reno cost is, not the lowball number everyone enters), So if your reno cost is actually lower and you can prove that with receipts you can object to it