Sparks Fly over Bailout for Downtown Development
At a public hearing on Thursday, debate arose over the plan to grant CityPoint, the stalled Downtown development, $20 million in tax-exempt stimulus bonds. The proposed development, on the Fulton Mall, would include retail and office space as well as mixed-income housing, and supporters of the project, including Borough President Marty Markowitz, say that it…
At a public hearing on Thursday, debate arose over the plan to grant CityPoint, the stalled Downtown development, $20 million in tax-exempt stimulus bonds. The proposed development, on the Fulton Mall, would include retail and office space as well as mixed-income housing, and supporters of the project, including Borough President Marty Markowitz, say that it will bring jobs to the area, boost the local economy, and promote further development in the area. Seth Pinsky, president of the city’s Economic Development Corporation and chair of its Capital Resource Corporation, the group that will decide on the stimulus request on Tuesday, told The Brooklyn Paper that the bonds will cost $308,000 in tax revenues over 30 years, but the project will generate $340,000 in construction-related tax revenues, $5.7 million in tax revenue from ongoing operations, and the creation of 100 construction jobs and about 70 permanent retail jobs in the portion of the development built from stimulus dollars. Opponents say that the developers don’t deserve a bailout for a risk that bottomed out, and they question how much the project would actually benefit the neighborhood: the jobs created are of low quality; national retailers might displace local merchants; and the affordable housing will still be too expensive for some low-income families in the area. John Tyus, a member of Families United for Racial and Economic Equality, told the Paper, “Fundamentally, this project does nothing to benefit the Brooklyn community, and this is a straight-up Bloomberg bailout of developers who speculated and made poor financial decisions.” GMAP
Foes and Supports Clash over $20-mil Fed Bailout [Brooklyn Paper]
City Point Gets Financing Boost from The Feds [Brownstoner]
fsrg- let me clarify- that comment was a general one- didn’t necessarily referring to anything you specifically said. And I have to clarify the demeaning job thing as well- it isn’t the nature of the work. I used to work as a maid in a Holiday Inn when I was in college. It was sometimes downright disgusting work but I wasn’t bothered by the work. It was the supervisor’s attitude that anyone who would choose to do that job had to be a loser. And I’ll give you another example.
I used to be very close with a woman in my senior year at college. She got married to a corporate guy and they had money. She was always something of a snob but…She walked into the store I was working a retail job at, during post grad work and saw me. She muttered hello and then spent half an hour walking through my department ignoring me. I never heard from her again.
I hear you re the nasty gov’t clerk- was that you I spoke with the other day 😉
“I still think it’s pretty arrogant to talk about taking pride in a job that is used to demean someone.”
I don’t see working retail as “demeaning”.
Characterizing it that way makes no sense to me and is quite unfair to the people who do it.
I once had a job at a butcher shop cleaning up after assorted cows and chickens had been hacked to pieces. It wasn’t a pretty job, and I got a lot of blood on me, and I got paid minimum wage, and I got a lot of crap from the butchers, but I never thought it was demeaning.
“the worst attitudes I have ever dealt with have come from those in better paying, higher level positions who think because they got where they are they are somehow smarter and better than the rest of us. The corporate world is full of them.”
Yep. And step 1 to “how to succeed in the corporate world without a lot of connections and a good pedigree” is “learn to smile and nod to these obnoxious twits”.
Until you start your own business or become CEO, you have to put up with crap from your superiors. If someone constantly fights back against them and pretends it is a jr. high school playground instead of a job, they will NEVER get promoted or a decent raise.
fsrg- those points I agree with. I’m not unrealistic as to what it takes to get ahead. I am disturbed by the condescension of people who seem to assume if you are in a low level job its because you are incapable of doing better and its your attitude thats the whole problem. I’ve got an education, I have a skizload of skills and there have been times when I was treated like crap- not because I wasn’t doing a great job- I was- but because I was pigeonholed by being in that job in the first place.
You called MM arrogant for making a point you didn’t agree with. But I think it’s a mistake to think that poor work attitude is what keeps people in low level jobs when I’ve seen so much of it at higher levels as well. A top tier manager or a CEO can have just as poor a work ethic as a kid flipping burgers at a fast food place. The wonder of it is how did they get to that position in the first place?
Bxgrl – what does this even mean “That said, I still think it’s pretty arrogant to talk about taking pride in a job that is used to demean someone. ”
1st of all I never talked about taking “pride” in anything – all I said was that it is arrogant to “poo-po” entry level jobs simply because THAT job wont allow you to provide for a family or a comfortable life.
2nd – I know of not a single job that is “used to demean people” – some jobs are considered demeaning, and some employers demean their employees, but even the guy who cleans toilets for a living, is doing because….toilets need cleaning.
As for someones pride, or attitude – most employers have no idea what an employees true attitude or work ethic is, but they can check what their prior work history is…and so if you can show that you’ve been successfully employed in the past, you have a big leg up on those that cant….
therefore these jobs give someone that “rung” to get to the next level (even if the ladder never gets to the boardroom) – so as it applies to the retail workers we all experience with the lousy attitude – that is fine for them, as long as there attitude isnt so bad as to result in termination or a bad reference – as long as they can prove they are somewhat dependible and ’employable’ – they have a shot at moving to the next level – like a nasty clerk at a Government office for example 🙂
“I should take pride in doing a good job for people who will never be bothered to appreciate my work? ”
Yes! assuming your getting paid for the job – that is how it works!, this isnt kindergarden, mosty employers arent giving out pats on the back or stickers…..
But thats not the point anyway – and I’ll say it again – the point of these low level jobs – or most jobs for that matter – isn’t simply so you can stay within that singular organization and slowly rise up until you become CEO.
Its to get paid, health ins, etc… and to better YOUR credentials so YOU can get a better job – likely at ANOTHER organization.
If you have no credentials (i.e. no work history, little education, etc…) you have to start somewhere. And these jobs offer that opportunity….
I really don’t know what the alternative is? An unemployed H.S dropout isnt going to get hired into a middle management position (nor is the middle manager likely ever to see the boardroom btw). And the fact that your job is a deadend (beyond pay & benefits) doesnt mean that YOU are at a deadend, it just means that once you acquire the requisite experience, you need to get another job.
northsloperenter- I happen to agree with many of your points and no matter what the job paid, if I was doing it, i took pride in doing it well. That said, I still think it’s pretty arrogant to talk about taking pride in a job that is used to demean someone.
While fsrg talks about the reality- as he sees it- of who may or may not eventually rise to the top, the gist of hsi point was, it can be assumed that these people will never rise to the top. Self-fullfilling prophecy then I think its lovely to talk about taking pride in your work. how about your employer trying to reinforce that idea? Because many of them seem to have the same attitudes you, benson and fsrg have. It’s a variant of let them eat cake. You have your preconceived idea of people in low paying jobs and so of course, now its all their fault.
I’d like to point out that while I have my complaints about the local cashier who has no clue about how to behave, the worst attitudes I have ever dealt with have come from those in better paying, higher level positions who think because they got where they are they are somehow smarter and better than the rest of us. The corporate world is full of them.
So I will stick to my premise- it works both ways. You want someone to respect their job, give them a job they can respect- and I don’t necessarily mean financially. When you treat people poorly, they respond poorly. It works both ways.
bxgrl,
The problem with your logic is that it assumes it is “easier” to have a bad attitude then a good attitude and that people with low paying jobs should therefore not have to put out the effort to have a good attitude.
But having a bad attitude does not make your life easier. It makes it harder.
If you have a low paying job stocking shelves or working a cash register, being unpleasant with customers and confrontational with your supervisors makes your job more stressful and harder and full of conflict.
It is not going to benefit the employee in any way whatsoever except for whatever emotional lift they get through their behavior.
Now, if that emotional lift is worth more than a quiet life at work and a good recommendation from a supervisor when the time comes that you need one, then I suppose they are making a good choice.
If someone is in a dead end job, it is not their employer’s fault. A job does not come with the guarantee of a career or a promotion, and in our society it is not the employer’s role to lift people up from lower to middle class.
If someone wants to make that transition, they need to understand that it is not primarily about money. It is primarily about education and attitude. They come first. The money comes later.
(The exception being people who start their own successful business. Successful entrepreneurs get to do things their own way, and money will usually trump attitude and education in America — but these people are rare and usually are very smart even if they lack higher formal education.)
While I do have sympathy for someone who did not get a good high school education and for whom college was not really an option, if such a person wishes to get a “good” corporate job, then they have to convert themselves into someone a corporation wants to give such a job to.
And that will most likely involve a refresher on high school english and math followed by at least an associates degree.
But to get back to your question “why should I take pride in my work”?
The real answer is: because you are the one doing it.
And if that answer makes you roll your eyes, here is another: because other people will use your bad attitude as a stick to beat you with and you should not hand weapons to your enemies.
Oh of course- only you would think a job at a sales kiosk is making the best of your station in life. Talk about arrogant attitudes. I should take pride in doing a good job for people who will never be bothered to appreciate my work? Should Untouchables be satisfied with their lot in life in India? Should they do the most horrible, menial taks with a smile because its “their lot or station in life?” Why don’t you do it, benson and then come talk to me at the end of a week.
And that so does not compare to political fortunes- please. Stop with the false comparisons.
Bxgrl;
I’m still stratching my head. FSRG is being realistic. Most of us, myself included, have no (or just the faintest) hope of making it to the Boardroom. Again I ask, SO WHAT??
How does that justify not trying to make the best of your lot, regardless of your station in life?
Moving to another field: should someone working in a low-level political position – say someone on the staff of a local council person – not give a damn because the likelihood of ever being the POTUS is very, very small?