Sparks Fly over Bailout for Downtown Development
At a public hearing on Thursday, debate arose over the plan to grant CityPoint, the stalled Downtown development, $20 million in tax-exempt stimulus bonds. The proposed development, on the Fulton Mall, would include retail and office space as well as mixed-income housing, and supporters of the project, including Borough President Marty Markowitz, say that it…
At a public hearing on Thursday, debate arose over the plan to grant CityPoint, the stalled Downtown development, $20 million in tax-exempt stimulus bonds. The proposed development, on the Fulton Mall, would include retail and office space as well as mixed-income housing, and supporters of the project, including Borough President Marty Markowitz, say that it will bring jobs to the area, boost the local economy, and promote further development in the area. Seth Pinsky, president of the city’s Economic Development Corporation and chair of its Capital Resource Corporation, the group that will decide on the stimulus request on Tuesday, told The Brooklyn Paper that the bonds will cost $308,000 in tax revenues over 30 years, but the project will generate $340,000 in construction-related tax revenues, $5.7 million in tax revenue from ongoing operations, and the creation of 100 construction jobs and about 70 permanent retail jobs in the portion of the development built from stimulus dollars. Opponents say that the developers don’t deserve a bailout for a risk that bottomed out, and they question how much the project would actually benefit the neighborhood: the jobs created are of low quality; national retailers might displace local merchants; and the affordable housing will still be too expensive for some low-income families in the area. John Tyus, a member of Families United for Racial and Economic Equality, told the Paper, “Fundamentally, this project does nothing to benefit the Brooklyn community, and this is a straight-up Bloomberg bailout of developers who speculated and made poor financial decisions.” GMAP
Foes and Supports Clash over $20-mil Fed Bailout [Brooklyn Paper]
City Point Gets Financing Boost from The Feds [Brownstoner]
benson- just exactly what do you think my logic is? I am simply pointing out to fsrg (who accused MM of being arrogant) fo the inherent hypocrisy of his argument. But I’ll explain it again. Why should fsrg be surprised at the attitudes of people in low paying jobs – which he claims could be viewed as a stepping stone to something better (a necessary rung) should they show the proper work ethic- and at the same time he says ” the class of worker we are talking about wont likely ever see the corporate boardroom”
Of course even you realize the dead end you may be at your company pays a lot more than a dead end job at McDonald’s or a sales kiosk. My point being that if you expect people to take pride in their work, maybe the work should also take a little pride in them.
“why would anyone care about doing a good job in one of these low-level positions when they are told outright nothing they do will ever let them rise to a better one”
Bxgrl;
For the life of me, I can’t understand your logic.
I’ll reinforce FSRG’s points above (which I seem to be doing alot these days). I also have a very good position, and an advanced education (I’m writing this from Tel Aviv, Israel – I’m on a business trip). Having said that,I am at a dead end in my company, due to the state of the industry I work in. So what??? Does that mean I should not have some pride in my work?
My company hires folks for what we call “inside sales” positions. These are folks that work the phones in my office to follow up with customers on things like order processing, delivery, billings, etc. It pays about $45K – well above minimimum wage. The basic requirement for this position is a pleasant telephone voice and manner, showing up for work consistently and following up on any issues that arise. A HS diploma would be sufficient. What is mainly required is a proper attitude, and I can tell you that we have to go though a TON of resumes to find folks suitable for these positions.
I rarely go to shopping malls, but when I do I am amazed at the look on the face of the people who man those little sales pagodas. They don’t even LOOK like they have the SLIGHTEST interest in their job. That type of attitude is destructive to their well-being and advancement.
Mm is not pooh-poohing the jobs so much as the attitude that these jobs are a stepping stone,a “necessary rung” – as you imply on one hand- but on the other you acknowledge that ” my pronouncement (that the class of worker we are talking about wont likely ever see the corporate boardroom).”
So my question is- why would anyone care about doing a good job in one of these low-level positions when they are told outright nothing they do will ever let them rise to a better one/. Because that is exactly what you are saying. Of course, when you say something it’s realistic. when MM says it, it’s “arrogant.”
With close to 14% unemployment for African American men and about 10% for Hispanics in New York City any job (even a crappy job) is better than being unemployed. Is low income housing ever going to be 100% affordable for even the poorest among us? Probably not Americans value “I got mine, you get your’s economics” too much. A new park, more downtown underground parking and storefronts that can fit national retailers isn’t the end of Brooklyn. CityPoint might not be Piazza Navona, but it seems a shade better than Atlantic Yards.
No my pronouncement (that the class of worker we are talking about wont likely ever see the corporate boardroom) isnt arrogant – its realistic – I make well into the six figures, have an advanced degree and I have never been inside a corporate boardroom either (and likely never will) – so it isnt arrogance it is realism.
Now please go back and read what I posted earlier – because I never said that a retail salesperson/floor worker, or McDonalds employee is going to rise up the ladder at that organization; he/sh very well might not – but when they apply for the NEXT job at a different organization, their prior work history (assuming successful) is going to be their entree. And before you jump all crazy- I am not suggesting that the “next” job is going to be CEO of IBM – the next job might just be one level up (in pay and/or responsibility) but it is the ‘next’ job; In my career – the only real (i.e. not a meaningless job title increase or small % raise) promotion I ever got was by moving companies – and I do not think I am in any way unique.
The point is, the jobs you poo-po are a necessary rung on the ladder (albeit maybe a short ladder) for millions of people and without them, the only other choice will be unemployment.
OK, fsrq, I have to take my arrogant self out to a meeting, but let’s just say that you need to look in a mirror when making pronouncements. You call me arrogant out of one side of your mouth, while stating that the boardroom “isnt an option for the class of workers we are referring too”. Grammatical errors aside, arrogant much yourself?
I never said it was IMPOSSIBLE for someone at an entry level job to move up. I said it was not the norm. I worked as a salesperson in retail several times in my life, and what I saw were older people stuck on the sales floor for life, being managed by kids the age of their children or grandchildren. The managers had no experience in retail, and the sales staff could tell them more about retail than they would ever learn, but those kids had college degrees, and the sales people didn’t. Corporate was not going to promote the salespeople, they don’t even think that way, not anymore.
There in nothing wrong with entry level jobs. There is something wrong with not being able to rise higher.
MM- “Very, VERY few people can move from the mail room to the board room anymore,”
Thanks for proving my point about you’re viewing being an arrogant one…..no one is talking about moving to the boardroom – that isnt an option for the class of workers we are referring too – and frankly how many people here (or anywhere) have ever even been in a true corporate boardroom –
we are talking about moving from UNEMPLOYMENT to making a decent liveable wage – and on that track…..low wage employment is generally a necessary (if a lousy step) on that path.
Townhouse lady you are correct, but i will presume that before working as a manager, you worked as a regular retail sales/floor person, I also assume you put your retail experience on the resume that you used to get the job at the Ins Co (higher paying I also assume)…if my presumptions are correct, your experience proves my point
As someone who managed retail stores for quite a few years after college. Retail almost always offers health insurance. BUT…you need to work full time (over 20 hrs.) to qualify. VERY few people are ever made full time b/c it then costs the company approx. $500 extra a month in order to employ them.
I also worked in the insurance industry for many years. When we wrote policies for companies we’d always put in caveats for who was eligible for coverage (eligible classes) how many months of employment, how many hours worked.
It’s a total catch 22.
“Your attitude is arrogant and frankly ill informed in my opinion” – Ummmm, fsrg, pot….kettle…..
And yes, I have hired people, both for companies I worked for, and for my own. The ability to show up on time is certainly a plus, but if they don’t have skills, I can’t use them for the specialized jobs I was hiring for.
Very, VERY few people can move from the mail room to the board room anymore, and even when that Horatio Alger story was born, it never was more than the tale of a select few people who are able, talented or lucky enough to do so. It is not the norm. I never said there was anything wrong with an entry level job, it is a job, no doubt about that. However, to say that that is enough, and the cream will rise to the top, is to shortchange the vast majority who need to be helped, with specialized job training for careers, not just jobs, and often for the societal and life skills needed to help them get those careers. It is not enough to provide the bare minimum and then walk away like the problem’s been solved, and then point to the Darwininan scramble and say that see, a couple of people are now middle management, the system works. Sorry, not buying it.