Sparks Fly over Bailout for Downtown Development
At a public hearing on Thursday, debate arose over the plan to grant CityPoint, the stalled Downtown development, $20 million in tax-exempt stimulus bonds. The proposed development, on the Fulton Mall, would include retail and office space as well as mixed-income housing, and supporters of the project, including Borough President Marty Markowitz, say that it…
At a public hearing on Thursday, debate arose over the plan to grant CityPoint, the stalled Downtown development, $20 million in tax-exempt stimulus bonds. The proposed development, on the Fulton Mall, would include retail and office space as well as mixed-income housing, and supporters of the project, including Borough President Marty Markowitz, say that it will bring jobs to the area, boost the local economy, and promote further development in the area. Seth Pinsky, president of the city’s Economic Development Corporation and chair of its Capital Resource Corporation, the group that will decide on the stimulus request on Tuesday, told The Brooklyn Paper that the bonds will cost $308,000 in tax revenues over 30 years, but the project will generate $340,000 in construction-related tax revenues, $5.7 million in tax revenue from ongoing operations, and the creation of 100 construction jobs and about 70 permanent retail jobs in the portion of the development built from stimulus dollars. Opponents say that the developers don’t deserve a bailout for a risk that bottomed out, and they question how much the project would actually benefit the neighborhood: the jobs created are of low quality; national retailers might displace local merchants; and the affordable housing will still be too expensive for some low-income families in the area. John Tyus, a member of Families United for Racial and Economic Equality, told the Paper, “Fundamentally, this project does nothing to benefit the Brooklyn community, and this is a straight-up Bloomberg bailout of developers who speculated and made poor financial decisions.” GMAP
Foes and Supports Clash over $20-mil Fed Bailout [Brooklyn Paper]
City Point Gets Financing Boost from The Feds [Brownstoner]
fsrq — yeah, yeah, yeah, take the Fed’s money if you can get it, and if you can get a decent building or two out of it, that’s great.
Still, I think we are rewarding too many dumb developers whose business plan included “real estate prices and rents always go up up up!” as an underlying premise.
“if someone sent me a resume showing a multi-year consistent employement in a lousy (Mickey d’s type enviroment) job – I’d move them to the top of the pile; because it demonstrates the most important quality (and the one hardest to find and impossible to train) – dedication and an ability to work within a constrained structure.”
As someone who’s hired several employees, I couldn’t agree more. These jobs aren’t great by any stretch. But they provide a true stepping stone if the employee utilizes the experience and credentials gained in the proper way. It’s ridiculous to oppose a project that creates jobs because those jobs are “of low quality.” And fsrg is also right about the idea that “vast numbers of the people in NYC who hold these jobs are unqualified to do almost anything because of their horrible attitude, poor work ethic and lousy communication skills.” How many times have posters here complained about the attitudes of Duane Reade type workers. That’s exactly who we’re talking about here!
Equally silly is the notion that “national retailers might displace local merchants.” Any local merchant that provides products consumers want and good service, will survive any influx of national retailers.
“In fact, I promise that 90% of the money will be spent on wages and taxes.”
I am sure – except once the grant was gone – so would the stimulative effect…a building will stand for ever, likely always generate $ and can perpetually pay workers from this generated money….sort of the “teach a man to fish….” thing.
Besides – this is FEDERAL STIMULUS money- if not spent/tax abated here – then where? – We are going to be paying the tax and interest on the 700B forever anyway, might as well use it for Brooklyn’s benefit
MM – “Yes, working at McD’s will teach you the skill of showing up on time, how to flip burgers, work the fryer, and mop the floor, but that hardly translates into getting any kind of job that involves more marketable skills that mean ever getting out of poverty.And standing bored behind the scarf counter at Daffy’s, or the checkout at Pathmark won’t do much for you either. ”
MM – have you ever tried to hire someone?
Did you ever hear the expression 80% of life is just showing up? – well its mostly true – and when you are talking about working life its probably more like 90%, and the other 10-20% is knowing how to speak/act like a reasonable person.
Your analysis ignores the reality of many entry level workers – who learning to reliably show-up and not act like an idiot on the job is the MAIN thing preventing them from getting anywhere beyond perpetual poverty.
You also the ignore the reality of a large majority of workers who work at decidedly non-entry level jobs – including many that pay well into the 6 figures…many/most jobs do not offer an opportunity to “rise up from there without further schooling or training in more specialized skills.” – most jobs are dead ends – within the organization in which it is situated….but they give you a resume and credibility to move up the ladder at another company or organization.
I have hired people at 2nd level jobs (i.e. higher than entry level but hardly glamorous) and I can tell you if someone sent me a resume showing a multi-year consistent employement in a lousy (Mickey d’s type enviroment) job – I’d move them to the top of the pile; because it demonstrates the most important quality (and the one hardest to find and impossible to train) – dedication and an ability to work within a constrained structure.
Your attitude is arrogant and frankly ill informed in my opinion, no one is saying that retail/entry-level jobs are the end all-be all…but unless you already have great experience in some field or have received specialized training, they are the jobs that are necessary to move up the ladder….and as been expressed here many time before – using the low-end retail employees in Brooklyn as an example – it should be clear to many that vast numbers of the people in NYC who hold these jobs are unqualified to do almost anything (at this point) because of their horrible attitude, poor work ethic and lousy communication skills.
“uh you are forgetting one thing….Rob speaks before he thinks.”
Ah, good point.
Yeah, and I’m getting tired of the government giving money to developers who screw up with the thin excuse that the project will “generate jobs and tax revenue”.
Yeah, give me a few millions dollars and I’ll hire some people to do some stuff and pay some taxes too… In fact, I promise that 90% of the money will be spent on wages and taxes.
“posts seem to be intended to generate responses rather than reflect your thoughts ” – uh you are forgetting one thing….Rob speaks before he thinks. Often he doesn’t even think just reacts to his moods. But is a fixture so we forgive him. Kinda like the grumpy old aunt. Only better looking.
but more to point of tax exempt bonds, etc. Not happy about it, and does often seem like gift to real estate lobby
(Bloomie’s friends)… but what if doesn’t get built – the drag on the area.
rob — the frequency with which your posts seem to be intended to generate responses rather than reflect your thoughts puts you pretty close to the definition, although you are less malicious than most.
Perhaps Enfant Provocateur would be more accurate.
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/enfantprovocateur.htm
quote:
lol @ rob not realizing he is a troll.
:-/ whatever. i think you need to learn the definition of what a troll is.
*rob*
The tax exempt bonds are available to projects in this area of northern brooklyn due to the stimulus legislation. Shovel ready projects are needed, of which there are few mixed use ones teed up like the city point site. The city still owns the land, as was pointed out so has a stake in this beyond the usual. The development will accomplish various things: large number of entry level jobs (retail and restauramts are the ONLY way to do that now, virtually no more factories coming ever again to BK); construction; better stores for Fulton as the middle class and working class that shops there deserves better and is slowly getting it on Fulton; continued investment in downtown BK and Fulton, a key street; AFFORDABLE HOUSING, a great thing.
Remaining issue is how to employ local residents, and concern i agree with.