Open Thread

benson, I realize you would never credit Obama with anything less than th destruction of the US but Iran was forging ahead with its nuclear program for several years prior to Obama’s wlwction. I don’t care if you don’t like him ( you seem to have an irrational hatred of him) but you are doing yourself no favors by frogetting the relevant facts.

legion- I agree with some of what you say but while Iraq may have a functioning democracy at this point, it is a barely functioning one and it remains to be seen if democracy takes permanent hold or only lasts until the next internecine battle of the religious sects.

The infrastructure needs repair and rebuilding because we invaded and destroyed it. I can’t crow about our success- if it can be called that- because we broke the place. We invaded a sovereign nation without cause. That supercedes all the credit we would like to claim for ourselves now, in my opinion.

Arkady is right- Al Qaeda hated Saddam and vice versa. They never had a toehold until after we destroyed the government.

As far as the role of women- Saddam was a secular leader. Women were not -although far from being allowed the rights we have here i the states-subjected to the same extremes as women in other , more fundamentalist nations in the region. They are still subject to honor killings and being treated as second class citizens because we have not changed the culture by imposing a version of democracy on Iraq.

Our success in Iraq is more a matter of fixing what we broke, not improving on what they had.

Benson,

that’s so true, what’s left of the Libyan nuclear program is in a warehouse outside of that country.
Bush won’t get credit for that any time soon.

Arkady,
al quaeda was indeed making a major stand in Iraq (Bin Laden himself said so), really it was the second war of three successive wars in Iraq.
The first was against the Iraqi army which ended with
the taking of Bagdad and capture of Hussein.
The second was the war against al quaeda which ended when the leader of al quaeda in Iraq was killed by a drone I believe.
The third was the proxy war against Iran which was attempting to destabilize the fledgling state. Didn’t work.
President Obama and Biden both say it is a success and the military turned over operations last month.
sure there are still bombings just as there continue to be threats against the US.

Legion;

One more point that is virtually forgotten. One other successful outcome was that Libya gave up its nuclear program after they saw that George W. meant business (i.e. deposing Saddam).

Compare that outcome with all the empty saber-rattling of President Obama wrt Iran. Outcome of that empty saber rattling: Iran forges ahead on its nuclear program.

bxgrl,

I have to disagree about Iraq at this point,
and agree with the President and Vice President;

-Iraq is a democracy, it’s not Ohio, but
you take what you can get.

-Politically, there is diversity and shared
responsibility between Shiites, Sunnis and
Khurds.

-Al quaeda is not a significant player there
as the local provincial leaders long ago
decided that the murder and mayhem was not for
them.

-schools are being built and infrastructure is
being repaired including the oil producing
facilities which will continue to stabilize that
nation and push it into prosperity.

-women are now active members of the political class.
Shiites and Khurds are now part of the political process.

-Iran is now surrounded by a functioning Democracy and political ally to the North with Turkey, to the West with Iraq and to the East we have Afghanistan which puts the squeeze on Iran big time.
remember to the South sit two Nimitz Class Air Craft Carriers with 4 acres of US territory on each.

I’m not seeing the complete failure there.
not saying going in was the best choice,
just saying that there is success there to
a definite degree.

Tur

i don’t use sheets, that’s so gross. i wipe down my sleeping area with clorox wipes once a week.

*rob*