Open House Picks
Park Slope 360 4th Street Warren Lewis Sunday 2:30-4:30pm $1,980,000 GMAP Prospect Lefferts 30 Midwood Street Brown Harris Stevens Sunday 2-4pm $1,495,000 GMAP Crown Heights 179 Kingston Avenue Corcoran Sunday 2-4pm $899,000 GMAP Crown Heights 1160 Sterling Place Outreach Real Estate Saturday 2-4pm $749,000 GMAP
Park Slope
360 4th Street
Warren Lewis
Sunday 2:30-4:30pm
$1,980,000
GMAP
Prospect Lefferts
30 Midwood Street
Brown Harris Stevens
Sunday 2-4pm
$1,495,000
GMAP
Crown Heights
179 Kingston Avenue
Corcoran
Sunday 2-4pm
$899,000
GMAP
Crown Heights
1160 Sterling Place
Outreach Real Estate
Saturday 2-4pm
$749,000
GMAP
Understand the reaction, GG — I live between 4th and 5th Aves in central Park Slope and some people still talk like we’re Fort Apache. (& just to emphasize, I personally have been to PLG maybe twice ever, so I’m not endorsing any bashing of the nabe.) My post could have been better written, so no prob on the misunderstanding.
You are actually correct Linusvanpelt. I confess to having misread the construction of your post where you said “that sounds to me (as someone who does not live in the neighborhood) . . . .” As such, I’ll now apologize for that rather quick and emotional response of mine. Furthermore, let me also confess to having an emotional response to some of the PLG-bashing that occurs on this forum in general. Unfortunately, much of it is not informed by direct experience and thus it is deeply annoying. However, the specific insults I’ve been addressing on this particular thread have emanated from a poster who sought to coopt a discussion about the asking prices in the historic district in order to dump a bunch of personal complaints about a neighorhood border area that has yet become a focus of gentrification. Such twisting of facts under the guise of sharing information about the so-called real estate hype of the Manor is super annoying.
Truth is, I actually feel for the frustration of that poster. Again, having lived in PLG for as long as I have(and NOT in the Lefferts Manor historic district), I have definitely “suffered” through many years of “pioneering.” Moreover, IMHO, the pioneering period in the greater PLG is still far from over. But, at the same time, there are really clear signals that the area is making a comeback. And, to see real evidence that the nabe is on the road back to its former glory is both very exciting and uplifting. So, yeah, I suppose I am a bit thin-skinned when I see a neighborhood in which I am deeply-invested (and, by association, my home and that of my friends and neighbors) being reduced to nothing more than Prospect Lefferts Crack Gardens. It’s just not so. And, yes, I vigorously protest!
Lastly, let me also concur with you on observation that the strategy of defeating bad misinformation with good facts is probably always the better road to travel when one is attempting to win folk over to an opposing point of view. Indeed, I agree with that so much that I figure I should at least shed my “anonymity” here and now: I was not only the poster of 7:53 on 10/14 but also GardensGal who posted today (10/15)at 10:57. Thank you, Linus, for the constructive criticism.
anon 12:40 —
Where did I say that you didn’t live in PLG? I was saying that *I* don’t live in PLG. In fact, I assumed you *did* live in PLG — from the substance, and not the language, of your post.
I wrote, for instance, that it sounded like “people who live there just don’t think [the PLG critic] should be hanging their dirty laundry in public.” I referred to you as being one of the “people who live there” — how much clearer could that be?
Anyway, as to the apples-and-oranges comparison, that’s a very good point. And it would have been more convincing if you had made that point in your original post. (Which, from your reply to me, apparently was the anon 7:53 post.) Instead, you simply accused the PLG renter (who you assumed was a purchaser) of being bitter about his/her purchase and said he/she should “get over it” or, “better yet,” move.
To me — again, someone who does not live in PLG — that read as your saying not that the poster was wrong, but just that he/she should shut his/her mouth and stop posting negative things, even if right.
I think it’s more convincing to rebut someone’s facts rather than to attack their motives and tell them to shut up or move.
Linusvanpelt,
I’m the poster who stated that the renting ranter should “work towards the betterment” of the community rather than engage in useless whining and griping about it on this forum. As for your own obnoxious comment that my use of language implies that maybe I don’t live in PLG, please be advised that I am very much a resident of the PLG area. Indeed, I am an African-American female homeowner who has lived in this ‘hood for over 17 years! (And, no, my home — beautiful as it is — is not even situated in the coveted 8 blocks of the Manor). But who the heck are you anyway to determine who is who by the language a poster uses? Maybe I should have written to the ranter: “get yo haid outta da sewer and come on and git down wid da good folk.” Would use of that kind of language have led you to think that maybe I was a resident of the PLG “ghetto”? Give me a break!
Again, I’ve lived in the PLG for a substantially long time and I love and appreciate my neighborhood. Its architecture is beautiful, it’s ideally situated for access to many of the borough’s cultural and recreational attractions, the transportation links are excellent and there is a splendid diversity in every sense of that word that I consider precrious. However, all that being said, and as a neighborhood in transition, the PLG could definitely use some “betterment.”
I agree with you when you state that this forum offers the rest of us a service by allowing sharing of informed opinions that combat real estate hype. But let’s remember that this particular thread began way back with a discussion about the price of a house on Midwood Street in Lefferts Manor. The disgruntled poster who has talked about her experience of living next door to a crack house that is located somewhere around Nostrand Avenue and Sterling Street is living on the far border of the nabe and certainly nowhere close to the area where houses are being hawked in the $1M range. (Imagine someone trying to make a similar apples and oranges comparison in Park Slope. Let’s say the claim is that the environment and architecture of a house on the Park block of 3rd Street is touted as being comparable to that of a house on far south slope block at 4th Avenue). Would you be “informed” by such a comparison? I think not!
As I’ve repeatedly suggested on this forum, if one really wants to know if an out-of-control real estate hype is going on in PLG/PLM, try getting up off your keyboard and come over here and see things for yourself. Conversely, don’t cancel out a complete neighborhood on the basis of a dramatic rant by one frustrated poster. Most of us in PLG/PLM see our glass as being much more full than that.
Instead of attacking the motives of the Lefferts critic, it would make more sense to attack his/her facts — if they are actually incorrect. When people respond by saying that he’s simply bitter and wants to lower prices, or that he should stop criticizing and “work for the betterment” of the community, that sounds to me (as someone who does not live in the neighborhood) as if there is merit to his charges but that people who live there just don’t think he should be hanging their dirty laundry in public.
The great thing about this site is how it offers house shoppers a critical perspective on real estate hype. It’s perfectly legitimate to ask whether this neighborhood deserves to be priced at the level of a Clinton Hill, etc. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. But to simply attack your critics by saying, “Listen Mr. Negative, go join a community group and stop driving down my home values” not only does no one any good, it sounds like protesting too much.
If you are really interested in knowing what Prospect Lefferts is like, do what Anon 9:31 has done and get some direct experience. Try visiting the Midwood Street open house this weekend, for example. Then, take a bit of time to walk through the surrounding blocks of the PLG/PLM area. Have a sit down meal at Mike’s International (Flatbush Ave. and Midwood Streets). Walk through the Park and enjoy the fall foliage. Talk to area residents. Most will freely engage you in a discussion of our community.
If you can’t make it to the nabe to see it for yourself, visit these links that were posted here earlier in the week. For PLG, in general:
http://www.villagevoice.com/nyclife/0413,pareles,52201,15.html
Specifically for the Manor: http//www.leffertsmanor.org
Mrs. B just saw a crack deal on our street in Clinton Hill last week–and prices here are higher than PLG. Crack’s still everywhere in the “gentrifying” neighborhoods and the cops are paid off so it’s going to be a slow battle. Winnable, but slow.
I don’t live in Lefferts Manor, but I have been to the nabe several times. I can’t understand why this area gets blasted so hard on this web site. There are no crack houses in Lefferts Manor! I have never seen any scary loud people, either. It is a quiet nabe with loads of professional black and white people living together. Everyone says hello as they walk by you on the street. The kids have been respectful to me. Not one offer to buy crack.
Nostrand and Sterling are not in Lefferts Manor. They are even on the edge of Prospect Lefferts Gardens.
You Lefferts Manor people are so militant! It is a fine place for some people. But why can’t you accept that not everyone wants to raise their kids next to crack houses, walking by scary loud people, in an area with no decent stores or places to hang out? Why do you think it is somehow icomprehensible that some people don’t want their children to grow up in a middleclass “ghetto” surrounded by poor people? And why is it so absurd that not everyone would jump at the chance to pay anywhere near a million to live like that?