Seeking Advice on how to Tactfully talk to LL about Heat
Background: We moved into an owner-occupied top floor of brownstone over the summer. Before lease signing, we made absolute sure to ask specifically about their attitude towards winter heating protocol and they assured us that there would be “enough” to keep us warm. (FWIW We are coming from large apt buildings that were heated all day, every day for the entire duration of heating season and we made it crystal clear to the LL prior to lease signing that we are used to 68 degrees). Now we are a month into heating season with a little cold snap last week and LL is proving to be extremely stingy (and rather defensive when approached casually) with not providing the minimum indoor temperature required by NY heating law (I have thermometers monitoring every room, thank you). The last conversation we had, I got excuses ranging from: you aren’t even home during the day (but we very well could be!?) , it’s too expensive (cost of doing business!?), it’s wasteful (but it’s the law!?), my thermostat’s broken (so fix it), just wear a sweater and heavy socks like we do and you’ll be fine (already am and I’m not fine). Also I mentioned that my spouse will likely be working from home starting December (TRUE!), will therefore need daytime heat, and they freaked out with 20 questions as to why (none of your business). Trying to get this sorted as amicably as possible before it actually gets COLD out and we are left with documenting temperatures and calling 311, especially since we share a stoop and hallway with them. Who has advice on how to continue the discussion in a firm but friendly manner? THANK YOU.
CTG
in Landlord 10 years and 6 months ago
39
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39 replies
Rick | 10 years and 6 months ago
CTG, I’m a long term landlord and you remind me of a couple tenants I have had over the years. First of all, it is not that cold out. When temps drop the boiler will run more consistent. The top floor will take longer to heat than the lower floors. Over the years I’ve come to understand that everyone has different ideas of what is comfortable. Some people want it so warm so that they can live in their underwear all day. Others will complain that it’s too hot and will open their windows if I don’t turn it down. ( at that point I’m heating Brooklyn! ) What I’m getting at is that it’s difficult to expect perfection, especially this early in the season.
anotherposter | 10 years and 6 months ago
Now I tend to run cold, but we’ve had the heat in our brownstone on quite a bit already. Temperatures vary a lot by floor in our house (as much as 15 degrees at times) and we don’t get much sun, so it is often actually cooler on some floors than it is outside. If you’ve ever had to deal with a LL that doesn’t provide adequate heat, it can be very frustrating to deal with and I understand the OP being concerned. It’s never an easy situation to rectify. If the thermostat is placed too close to a heat source, that can throw off the heating for the whole building. And maybe you LL’s unit tends to run warmer than yours–in our house the garden level is by far the warmest and that’s where the thermostat happens to be installed so we close the vents we can and set it to a higher temp down there to keep the rest of the house warm. All that to say, monitor the temperatures and maybe even document them with photos. Hopefully it won’t come to needing that proof, but if it does, you’ll have it. Be as sweet as possible to start and save the fighting attitude for later. Also, their reaction to one of you working from home does make them sound like difficult LLs.
boredatwork | 10 years and 6 months ago
Take Two: You are not being reasonable. See here for October 2014 temps: http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/new-york-ny/10007/october-weather/349727 There was ONE DAY when the daytime low was below 55, on October 28\. There were NO NIGHTS when the nightime low was below 40\. So put on a sweater and wait until it gets cold to complain.
boredatwork | 10 years and 6 months ago
Owner of a two family with a similar set up. We just turned on the boiler last week (in response to a request from the tenant as she said it was cold in her garden unit). It runs on a timer and cycles for higher temps during the day and lower at night. And the boiler has not turned on since then. It sounds like the LL doesnt care about the law or is ignorant or both. Your conversations with him sound reasonable as you have described them, but he clearly doesnt see it that way. But as Cate says, why dont you wait ’til its really cold (like this weekend) and you can see what happens. While you may get some relief by calling 311 and having the landlord cited, in the long run you will lose, as he will not offer you a renewal lease and you will have to move.
guikazoid | 10 years and 6 months ago
Landlord here. We turned on the heat 1 day since the heating season began. We normally dont touch the thermostat and let it run on its program. But it just hasnt been cold enough to leave it on. Once it becomes cold we let the thermostat do its thing. BTW I asked our tenants if the temperature has been comfortable and they said yes.
bagofbricks | 10 years and 6 months ago
You come across like your ready to go to war with you landlord. If you insist on telling the LL what his responsibilities are, then by all means, bring the authorities into the picture ASAP. 311Online is easy as 123. I would wait until this weekend before ‘escalating’ things. Its going to get cold this weekend(cold enough that i’ll be turning on my heat for the season). If he doesn’t turn on the heat by then, maybe you’ll find a more sympathetic audience.
dnk | 10 years and 6 months ago
Wow CTG, I sympathize. I am a landlord, and I haven’t yet turned the heat on (!) but my house is very well insulated and my tenant is fine with it (I know that b/c I spoke with her about it; she often opens windows and she says she likes things on the chilly side). If my tenant came to me with your issues, I’d probably think all of the things he’s thinking (put on socks and a sweater! etc.) but only because I’m a cheapskate and kind of a jerk. But not a big enough jerk not to listen. I’d turn the heat on, because that’s the business arrangement between landlord and tenant. And it’s the law. Plus it’s the right thing to do. So, to be clear, my sympathies are with you. Since you’ve already had a conversation with him, I suggest you try writing him a note (email, if you’ve got his address) — polite but firm: remind him that you specifically raised the issue of following heating protocol before signing the lease, tell him that you want nothing more than to maintain a friendly and cordial relationship, but if heat isn’t provided, you will have to call 311 and bring the authorities into the picture. Hope that helps. Good luck!
cate | 10 years and 6 months ago
While heating season begins Oct. 1, it’s not cold yet and you sound like you are jumping the gun.
CTG | 10 years and 6 months ago
The windows are only 5 years old. It has to do with not getting direct sunlight into the majority of the apartment and our LL basically saying “tough sh!t” when we tell them that they are required to compensate for this by turning the heat up a little. We are not asking for them to overheat the place whatsoever…just to maintain the minimum temp required by law. Considering how much we are paying them, it’s very aggravating even having to discuss the issue.
majorhints | 10 years and 6 months ago
In older townhouses with older windows you are not going to be happy with the heating situation pretty much ever based on how particular you seem about it (assuming its steam heating). Most larger buildings in Manhattan are ridiculously over heated so if thats what you are looking for its time to move back and the cost to an owner to keep a boiler running almost constantly is very large relatively speaking.
xchx | 10 years and 6 months ago
Does anyone have advice about how to get the rooms in the house to heat more evenly? Our four-floor townhouse just has one thermostat on the ground floor.
CTG | 10 years and 6 months ago
To everyone saying they haven’t turned their heat on yet: Are you landlords?
ventilated | 10 years and 6 months ago
Heating season starts Oct. 1 and runs through May 31, regardless of whether it’s been unseasonably warm or unseasonably cold. The fact that one person’s house is still warm, or one person’s thermostat shows that heat is unnecessary is not proof that YOUR building is adequately heated. One thermostat in a multifloor, multifamily building is rarely an adequate measure of heat throughout the entire building. A responsible landlord places their thermostat in a location most likely to send adequate heat to all units, and balances their radiators to make sure heat moves to all floors and rooms before the thermostat shuts it down. A responsible landlord turns their bolier/furnace and heat on at the beginning of heating season and lets the thermostat dictate whether the boiler or furnace sends steam, hot water or hot air. Be forewarned that if your LL only provides 55° worth of heat overnight, you will find the air temperature uncomfortably cold. http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/tenants/heat-and-hot-water.shtml
Augustiner | 10 years and 6 months ago
Tell him that you plan to use cheap electric space heaters and that you are a bit worried that they are not safe. I’m sure they won’t be happy about that solution. Having said that – the heating season hasn’t really begun yet
cate | 10 years and 6 months ago
I wouldn’t leap to conclusions this early in the season when it’s still warm. I put our heat on for one day then turned it off again since the boiler didn’t even kick in. It’s been 70 degrees most days and well above 55 most nights inside even with no heat. Most years we haven’t needed to start heat until mid-November. Once it’s really cold and the boiler is going all the time, it’s a whole different situation.
CTG | 10 years and 6 months ago
Dave, we are aware of the law and have come to expect 68degs before 10pm. During last weeks cold snap (btw LLs were away and the t-stat is apparently manual, not on a timer, so it didnt kick on) we were getting high 50s during the day in all rooms except the lone sunny BR in back which was low 60s. Our LR faces north and therefore is much colder and also quite drafty. Clearly they expect us to adopt their higher threshold for cold but our opinion is the law’s the law. trying to find a middle ground before the really low temps come.
NeoGrec | 10 years and 6 months ago
We haven’t turned on the heat in our house yet. The lowest temperature our thermostat has displayed has been 69 degrees F. It would have to quite drafty to be much lower during the day. How cold is your apartment? Do none of your rooms get direct sun?
daveinbedstuy | 10 years and 6 months ago
A couple of things. First, it isn’t clear that you are aware of what the law stipulates (see the photo..you are not entitled to 68? inside at night). Second, it sounds like he’s a crotchety older man and is going to be stubborn (he may not even know the law). Once you start having a documentable problem you are going to have to confront him and then call 311. Coming from high rise buildings always forces renters to face realities as those buildings are, as you said, typically too warm.
bagofbricks | 10 years and 6 months ago
You mentioned that you had thermometers. What type of temps are you dealing with now?