Seller is refusing an inspection. Any advice?
We are about to sign a contract for a two-bedroom in Park Slope. The building was constructed in 1899 but it was renovated about 2 years ago. We are asking the seller to let me in to do the inspection before signing the contract. The seller is hesitant. We have not heard back yet but something is telling me that seller does not want the inspection prior signing the contract. It is so frustrating because we were in the bidding hell for several days. When the seller accepted our offer, we were happy (apparently there was 38 offers) but now we feel threatened that if we insist on the inspection, seller would simply turn to another buyer. Any advice? Please share!!!
raraavis
in Inspection 11 years and 1 month ago
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18 replies
Hardcharger | 11 years and 1 month ago
Someone just bought in our building. I don’t know if there was no inspection or a half hearted one. The redid the kitchen, painted, floors etc and then tried to hook up the new stove. Guess what , the meter had been removed because the last owner rented it to some weirdo. Now National Grid won’t give them service without a pressure test. Now they need to open their walls and floor that just redid, because the line won’t pass the pressure test. Now the co-op will pay for a lot of this cost, but they could of known this before they freshened the place up, with a decent inspection. This was a name broker to boot!!!! Get the inspection.
brokelin | 11 years and 1 month ago
Have to write to say that I (and many others) would disagree, and say that you DO NEED an inspection for an apartment. I had a few done when I was buying, and would do it again on any place I was considering making an offer on. I know that there are many who don’t get inspections on coops or condos…and many that will tell you that you don’t need one. Truth is, if you want one, then you do need one, and don’t let others who say you don’t need one talk you out of insisting on one. They are the sort who would rather not know about problems…if you want an inspection, you are the sort that wants all the information about the building you are buying into. Some people think you don’t need to worry about stuff that is the building’s responsibiLity to fix, as “someone else”takes care of it. That “someone else” is partly you when you are an owner. In Park Slope, where this two bedroom is, it is very likely to be 1 of 4 (or perhaps 8) units in a building built in the 1890s. You need an inspection of the building to figure out what work will need to be done in the foreseeable future…to the roof, boiler, for plumbing line leaks, window repair or replacement if the building assumes that asa whole, asbestos removal, facade work, etc., and you need to compare how much this will cost to how much the building has in reserve. Even if you have all the money in the world to pay for repairs as needed, and you are responsible for approx. one-fourth of the costs of the repair costs, if there is a lot of work to be done that will cost a lot, you have to assess why the building has so many deferred maintenance issues, and assess whether the other owners have the will and the funds to fix things, if you want to live in a building where things get fixed. If the building is a co-op, you have the possibility of taking out a building-wide mortgage rather than coming up with the repair money at once, but the other owners have to be willing to take the mortgage, and comply with the bank’s requirements for the mortgage. (In my 4-unit coop, the bank that held our existing underlying mortgage approved us for a small mortgage, which we wanted to find our dwindling reserve to use to make repairs, but the bank required that we comply with its requirements regarding inspecting the asbestos in our basement (which likely would not have passed and had to be removed in order to get the mortgage) and some of the coop members were unwilling to commit to making the asbestos safe to get the mortgage. Banks have different requirements for building-wide loans, which are considered commercial mortgages.) If it is a condo, you need the same information about deferred maintenance issues, reserves, and the ability and willingness of the other owners to pay assessments to fix things. The other possibility is that the coop or condo is in a larger building, either pre-war, or newer. While your percentage of the repair bills is much less than it is in a small building, you still need to be concerned about all of the above. The size of the repair bills is more staggering, when you are talking about elevators, and roofing and parapet and window and scaffolding issues, for projects that go on for many months. Also, with more owners, there is more likelihood that some will be foreclosed upon if the building has repair bills and some owners are financially strapped and unable to pay assessments and higher monthly costs. If someone in your building is foreclosed on, it will affect the value of your unit as well for some years after that. Just because some people don’t want to buy with the information they need doesn’t mean you should. I say, always get the inspection. And in NYC, you get it pre-contract…the places where people get it after contract, with the contract contingent on it, are not in NYC.
cate | 11 years and 1 month ago
Oh, it’s an apartment, not a house! They are different animals. You don’t need an inspection for an apartment, but you do need a lawyer who can read the minutes and financials of the building to determine if it is healthy. The bank will do an inspection of sorts as part of its appraisal. Whereas if you were buying a house I would agree with Slopefarm — no inspection is a deal breaker.
katarusa | 11 years and 1 month ago
Good for you! I was about to commend but read all comments till the end. When we were looking to purchase a house, there was one house that very “hot” on a market and many were fighting for it, when our offer was accepted we couldn’t be happier, we were so caught in this chase, it’s almost that you want it because other people want it also. Oh, I cannot tell you how lucky we were that we actually got it inspected. Our inspector(who inspected few houses for us before), had not a single positive thing to say. We were so grateful to walk away and let other people have it. I think it never got sold after all
slopefarm | 11 years and 1 month ago
Congrats. A good outcome. You are right to seek comfort in making a big purchase and to be reasonable about not chiseling. Dave, I glossed over the 2 BR thing as well. I might have lowered my dudgeon a bit had I noticed and thought that through.
raraavis | 11 years and 1 month ago
First off, thank you ALL for jumping in to share your opinion. It’s been really helpful. Update: after going back and forth, the seller has finally agreed to let us in. We will be performing an inspection next week. I doubt we will be able to use the inspection report to negotiate the price down – as several blogger pointed out, it’s a very hot market. However it’s important to have a peace of mind before making a million dollar purchase. MrHancock, if you were the seller, I hope noone would buy from you. Just put yourself in my shoes: would you be willing to sign off on a contract without knowing what you’re getting? What if you found out there was a major structural issue? I bet you’d want to sell asap without letting buyers to inspect. It just sets a really bad pattern. I hope noone ever has to encounter such a situation.
MrHancock | 11 years and 1 month ago
If I was the seller I’d be calling the other bidders already.
daveinbedstuy | 11 years and 1 month ago
I must have glossed over that this is a coop or cond (a 2 bedroom). Forget about the inspection. Just ask how old the boiler is, the roof, the windows, etc. You need to focus on getting the condo/coop docs and making sure there aren’t any lawsuits aganist the condo/coop which your lawyer can guide you through.
thetinkerswagon | 11 years and 1 month ago
dibs, there is a difference between stable paint on trim and paint that has alligatored off the wall. no body cared about the lead anywhere else in the house – me or them. i also am not sure if it was a matter of them fearing us negotiating that off the sale or if there was a liability concern. Not sure of any laws or liability regarding the sale of a house with peeling lead paint but I have heard, on here, that if your child has a certain lead exposure in their blood, the city will walk into the house and remove the molding. the sellers knew we have a child. they may have been afraid of acknowledging a bigger problem for other reasons. just a guess. glad you read my posts. I enjoy yours. Steve
resident2 | 11 years and 1 month ago
In this hot market no seller is going to sign a contract subject to inspection. The sellers Broker should have made that clear before accepting your offer. You are buying a 2 BR? A co-op or a condo? either way the building is responsible for everything behind the walls and the basic structure, mechanicals etc. and any issues will show up in the minutes of the co-op board meetings, unfortunately not all condos keep these or make them available to buyers, but co-ops must! But in bidding war situations; (just about every deal in prime areas these days), work with an experienced buyers broker that can give you a quick inspection of the interior of the apartment as you are looking. We were eventually referred to Kathryn Lilly at Realty on the Greene (by our inspector, who felt bad about dashing all our dreams!)after spending too much on inspectors trying to buy a house. After we started working with her as our buyers broker, she points out all the issues, explained what it needed to correct things and after we decided on a house, based on her quick inspection, she still insisted that we get an inspector of our choice who told us exactly the same as she had pointed out….but we saved a lot of money and hart ach passing on houses that needed far too much for us to handle. But for a co-op or condo it would be so much easier to get a quick inspection if you are looking with a broker that actually knows structure, construction, maintenance issues etc. In bidding wars, buyers wave inspections. Work with a buyers agent that can help you understand the whole process. In the last 5 years we have bought a co-op, sold it bought a house that we are no renovating while living in it and we have met too many brokers who act as if their only job is to be a messenger and a scheduler of appointments!
slopefarm | 11 years and 1 month ago
I agree. The seller’s fear is chiseling. Seller is not worried about a buyer walking in a hot market. There’s always another one. And lots of stuff the inspector will tell you is stuff that should be obvious. Inspection should only result in price discussion if it finds something beyond the view or common sense of a reasonable buyer. Lead paint in an old house is reflected in the agreed price. “Hey, they’ve got galvanized steel couplings on all the plumbing lines, that shit’s gonna rust big time” is an example of something the buyer is not expected to notice but an inspector will.
daveinbedstuy | 11 years and 1 month ago
Steve…if I were a seller of an 1800s brownstone or anything pre 1960s, I would not allow anyone to negotiate money off for lead peaint. A buyer should know that it’s certain to contain such.
thetinkerswagon | 11 years and 1 month ago
our realtor would not let me look at certain elements of our purchase. now I am a contractor so what I later found was not frightening to me – a gaping hole in plaster above a drop ceiling and some peeling lead paint in a blocked off skylight well (it would have amounted to an abatement before the sale if I were a stickler). We bought the house. Found the damage and were not upset. In our case, with the exception that they might have had to pay money to get rid of the peeling lead paint, I suspect they did not want me to know about these items because I would have used them as a bargaining chip. and if I discovered them after we were in contract I most certainly would have tried to say the lead paint was worth 1,000 off the price (and I suspect that once it was a known issue, they would not have been able to sell it to others until it was fixed) and the gaping hole, maybe $250\. My thought was they were more concerned about us using things as bargaining chips as opposed to us running away. Before running away, I think you have to get into the seller’s head a little bit here and try to figure out if they are afraid you will run away or if they are simply afraid you will start using defects (that you can otherwise live with) to get the price down. also, see the first sentence in Dibs reply. If this is something you want, I would not simply walk away; we didn’t and 6 years on we are fine with it. Steve
slopefarm | 11 years and 1 month ago
Dave, I’ve only bought twice and sold once in Brooklyn, but all times with a pre-contract inspection. No one batted an eye, not even the shysters who sold us our current house. I really think it is the norm.
daveinbedstuy | 11 years and 1 month ago
Inspections are done after contract signing but the contract is contingent on the inspection. Your lawyer should have explained that to you. Hopefully that is the miscommunication. Otherwise, walk away. This would be even more true if the renovation work that supposedly was done was unpermitted. You will feel like you are missing this after all the work but, as the others have said, it raises multiple red flags. I have bought houses without inspections in tight markets but that was because I did the inspection myself as I walked through, before making the offer.
rh | 11 years and 1 month ago
How badly do you want this place? Big red flag. I’d walk. Let the 37 other suckers fight over it.
dorkofwindsor | 11 years and 1 month ago
Hi raraavis, there is some information missing from your post. You make no mention of the seller’s agent. Is this a FSBO? If so, the seller may not be aware that it is customary in NY to do an inspection before signing contract. That is one possibility. If there is a (semi) reputable broker, then they should know this and there is a possibility that they are still shopping the property. Not hearing back is always a sign in a hot market that something may be going on. You should be politely aggressive, and try to determine exactly what is holding up the process. Are they dragging their feet in order to use you to get a better offer? Do you have a backup property in mind you are interested in and could let them know you need to know ASAP if they are serious because you have another property you are interested in bidding upon? Sounds like there was a difficult process, and there is nothing to prevent the seller from shopping the deal from under your feet until contract is signed. Sellers can be greedy, sellers can be oblivious, but at this point they hold the cards unfortunately.
slopefarm | 11 years and 1 month ago
IMHO, if it is true that the seller is denying you an inspection pre-contract, this is a dealbreaker. If they won’t let you inspect, you don’t want the house (even if you think you do). 1\. What are they hiding? 2\. Bullshit, unlike lightning, strikes often in the same place. If you sign under these conditions, you will encounter more problems with the seller and with the house. Hopefully, this is just poor communication and not actually an attempt to deny you an inspection.