Thoughs on boiler installer changing terms mid job?

Curious what others think about this. Last February I contracted out a company to do an oil to gas conversion (new boiler and water heater to replace oil burner). They were extremely slow to get the process started and then missed the first inspection with Coned. Causing the new construction for service to not get approved until August. So the new service was just brought in. I’ve tried reaching out to them since April because I didn’t want anymore delays and only now getting a reply from them. They are telling me that because of the whole explosion in the LES, they can no longer jump from one of my meters like originally planned, but instead now have to install the HW heater first, get it approved, get a meter for it, then take out the old boiler and put the new one in. Basically the same job, but different steps. They planned to do it all in one shot and jump from the meter until a new one came. The problem is besides me having lost all faith in them as a company, they also want an extra $4200 on the agreed price because they have to do the job in steps instead of one shot. Oh and since our permit will be expiring soon, they said I have go to DOB to request a renewal because it would take them months to get it renewed. Is that even true? What are your guys thoughts on this? And from any plumbers here interested to hear your thoughts, thanks

ditmarsman

in Heating 10 years and 2 months ago

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ditmarsman | 10 years and 1 month ago

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I thought I replied to this and now don’t see my reply. The sizing he got right, it’s not an in9, it’s a in6\. I was just writing the post off the top of my head. I feel ripped off because of what he is doing now, but such is life when dealing with contractors, lesson learned

eman134 | 10 years and 1 month ago

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BTW I wish that I could get a $4200 upcharge on a job because I f##ked up the bid. Changing plumbers at this point however will only cost you money

eman134 | 10 years and 2 months ago

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How big is your bldg.? As MP noted an IN9 seems to big for most common brooklyn installations..

steam_man | 10 years and 2 months ago

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But MP the sticker on the old boiler says it’s 1.3 MMBTUs. You mean you are going to take a chance onthe customer being cold???!!!! No way! 1.3 MMBTUs it is! as a matter of fact the old installer probably didn’t know what he was doing. I say you need 1.8 MMBTUs. I wonder if a firetube will fit in this boiler room?

Master Plvmber | 10 years and 2 months ago

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Steam man is right. Gennady is on point. Can I bring up another issue? My company installs somewhere between 70-100 boilers in Brooklyn and Manhattan each year, mostly in townhouses/brownstones/1-4 family residential buildings, and after that, I get up to about 20-family units. I’ve never had to install an IN9 in a 1-4 family. That’s a big boiler, and a guzzler if it’s as oversized as I’m thinking it is. IN5, IN6 and to a much lesser extent IN7s all day long. But never an IN9. I feel like this whole situation warrants review. Edit to add: Not that I know anything about your building, but I’m guessing by your tone and the terms of your contract, it’s a 1-4 family.

ellenlourie | 10 years and 2 months ago

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You can try to make plumber finish job at the original price. He will need to bring some money from his personal bank account to fill the void between his cost and job price. Good luck. He might not be dishonest. He just wanted to get job, assuming that all you need is low bid, so he sold you the price, not the job. He might not realise all costs associated with the job. Try to work with him assuming he had and still has good intentions. The reason you do oil to gas conversion in the first place is to save money. Gas is cheaper than oil about 30% per btu of heat, so you can keep operating inefficient heating system with cheaper fuel. But optimizing, upgrading and updating your heating system with modern techniques, you can save over 50% without converting to gas. Remember, boiler is only part of your heating system, and very often inefficiencies are not in the boiler room, but outside of it. Balancing steam and hot water systems, installation of outdoor and/or indoor reset controllers, variable frequency drive pumps, insulating of all piping, correcting sequence of operation, just a few measures to name, making huge impact on efficiency of the heating systems.

ditmarsman | 10 years and 2 months ago

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Thanks for the replies. The contract doesn’t have any fine print, just lists the scope of the work like (and i’m paraphrasing): removal of old boiler removal of oil tank install of new boiler burnham in9 install of 2 x water heater ao smith filing all permits Install per nyc dob & boiler division etc.. Makes no mention of anything else. I never asked him to quote me on a “shortcut” or “illegal” job, I am just an average joe with not much understanding of how the process works. To now ask for that much more money for the exact same job because he is worried about doing it illegally like he originally planned seems like a dirty move to me. I never knew he planned on doing it illegaly from the beginning. What recourse do I have other than finding a new plumber? I mean even if I could “force” him to do it at the original agreed to price, do I really want someone dishonest like that doing my job?

no-permits | 10 years and 2 months ago

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@steam_man that sounds about right plus the DOB sign off at the end.

ellenlourie | 10 years and 2 months ago

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in order to get new gas meter, plumber must get gas autorization from building department. With this gas autorization plumber must make a request for another meeting win con ed, and after this meeting there will be set meeting for meter hanging and start up. procedure is not changed. Your pumber was going to do illegal thing in the first place. The reason for it probably to bring cost down. Con edison requests letter from plumber, stating that existing gas lines were tested and in good conditions. To switch gas service plumber now must test all gas lines in the house, and if test fails then you will not get gas for whole house until gas lines testing and repair/replacement will be done and signed off with building department. As an alternative request can be made to con ed to provide bottle with gas to keep existing lines under the gas pressure during switch over. The fee for this services start from $5000. The water heater installation in the first place is a legal way to go around certain regulations, but there is an issue. Meter for water heater might be too small for boiler, and boiler will not work properly. There other things you need to know. Talk to your contractor. I’m sure he is an honest contractor and intended best for you. And they must not charge you extra, unless there provisions in the contract. Read the small print.

jay | 10 years and 2 months ago

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Not an expert, but it seems troubling that they are changing their methods because of a gas explosion in Manhattan. That seems to imply they were going to be doing the work illegally.

steam_man | 10 years and 2 months ago

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MP correct me if I’m wrong here but I thought the process was always: Apply for meter from Utility. Install gas roughing. Pass gas rough inspection. Install and connect appliance. File for gas Final. Pass Gas Final. Call Utility for Meter. Install Meter. I guess you could also do the gas rough and final at the same time if the work is all exposed and in the same space. Sounds like there is nothing wrong with what the installer told the OP ” now have to install the HW heater first, get it approved, get a meter for it, then take out the old boiler and put the new one in” as you need to have a connected load in order to get a meter. Problem is they should have never suggested temporarily bypassing the meter in the first place. Some people!!!!! smh!!!