Charging tenants for heating

I’m looking into a four family which has an oil heating system. The owner stats that it costs $5600 a year (Could that be?? it’s 3000sqft) to heat the building. The system also heats the water – no water heaters. There are 5 electric meters and 4 gas meters. Subsequently, I am trying to come up with a strategy to lower the heating costs. Besides installing water heaters, connected to each of the apartment’s gas meter, I want to avoid replacing the oil system which might be very expensive.
I was thinking about hard wiring electric baseboard heaters, or some type of electric heaters that can be hard wired, or maybe even radiant floor heating system, while leaving a couple of regular radiators in the apt. This means that the apartment will be heated by both myself, through the oil radiators, and by the tenant, through their hardwired heaters. We will be sharing the cost of heating the apartment basically…. Is this legal?

Thanks

Williams

in Heating 13 years and 9 months ago

10

Please log in, in order to post replies!

10 replies

Newest Oldest

daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5115 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4858 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "3864"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BtJYyObAQmff2MQp.qFP7/kmwU1bBZ1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "djl135e54@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(55) "http://bstoner.wpengine.com/forums/users/daveinbedstuy/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:23:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(3864)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

What bowl of dicks said.  I agree.

4 units in 3,000 sq ft is a fair number of people..probably a lot of hot water.  You may want to at least switch to a gas hot water heater separate from the furnace.   That shouldn’t be a big expense at all since the building already does have gas.

bowl-of-dicks | 13 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5114 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5113 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "12647"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "bowl-of-dicks"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(17) "bowl-of-dicks-2-2"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(15) "cf80q@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(28) "/forums/users/bowl_of_dicks/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:15:42"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "bowl of dicks"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(12647)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Can’t speak about legalities, but as a renter, I would never consider an apartment where heat/hot water was not included in the rent. I think you will be reducing your pool of prospective tenants dramatically if you decide to make them pay even partially for this utility. Especially if that portion is for electric baseboard heat ($$$$).

Williams | 13 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5110 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5116 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "26877"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "Williams"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "takashiaman"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(17) "urigone@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(23) "/forums/users/williams/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:47:21"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "TakashiAman"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(26877)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

putnamdenizen

I’m sorry you feel that – it wasn’t my intention.

Putnamdenizen | 13 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5115 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5117 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "1667"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "Putnamdenizen"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$ByRhoMSai4D9P3YIyq0uz86TM/fsAc."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "putnamdenizen"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(17) "JLStevens@mac.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(35) "http:///forums/users/putnamdenizen/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:12:34"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "Putnamdenizen"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(1667)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

You are kind of rude for someone who is asking others to brainstorm with you.

daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5116 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5114 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "3864"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BtJYyObAQmff2MQp.qFP7/kmwU1bBZ1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "djl135e54@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(55) "http://bstoner.wpengine.com/forums/users/daveinbedstuy/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:23:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(3864)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Regarding your question about what’s legal, I don’t know.  i know that the rules change for anything above a 2 unit bulding.  If any apt is RS or RC, even more problematic.  With new leases, I don’t see why you couldn’t have a lease where tenant pays for heat but I’m wary of that happening in a 4 unit.  With existing tenants, obviously you are obliged by the existing lease.

In the long run, it’s going to be less of a hassle and more straightforward to write leases with heat included, even if you need to raise the rents to cover the costs

vinca | 13 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5110 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5118 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "13003"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(5) "vinca"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B7/fXRGe0Q0ToJkh4sBQGQv2r8uZYV0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(5) "vinca"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(15) "vinca@ymail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(47) "http://bstoner.wpengine.com/forums/users/vinca/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:15:46"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(5) "vinca"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(13003)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Have you even priced the installations you’ve mentioned? Under no circumstances would it be cheaper (never mind, better) to install individual water heaters, electric baseboard heating, and/or radiant flooring AND continue to heat with oil. Get a licensed plumber to review the efficiency and function of the existing system. There are incentives and rebates for converting from oil to gas. See: http://bit.ly/qk95tk
and http://bit.ly/oYLNHm

Williams | 13 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5114 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5115 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "26877"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "Williams"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "takashiaman"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(17) "urigone@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(23) "/forums/users/williams/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:47:21"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "TakashiAman"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(26877)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Exactly petbklyn! I do not want to do crazy expensive things. I first want to try and come up with cheaper solutions. About the missing info:
it is a row house – attached buildings on both sides. Wood frame. windows are double glazed and look pretty new. thermostat is in the basement: tenants do have access to it. Obviously that will change if I buy this building.

Petebklyn | 13 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5116 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5119 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(3) "787"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "Petebklyn"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B4duRniQAT/SKtK28XWeOFPVwjjk5M1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "Petebklyn"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(21) "petebklyn@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2007-08-10 18:03:45"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "Petebklyn"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(787)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

you didn’t say if house was unattached woodframe of brick row house attached on both sides.
   what about windows?   are they relatively good condition?   who controls the thermostat?
   Perhaps heating not ‘balanced’ so that running full throttle for one apt but others keep windows wide open because so hot.
Yes, the amount spent does seem expensive…..but before spending ton of money –   check for easier solutions/problems.

Williams | 13 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5115 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5110 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "26877"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "Williams"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "takashiaman"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(17) "urigone@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(23) "/forums/users/williams/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:47:21"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "TakashiAman"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(26877)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

“I want to avoid replacing the oil system which might be very expensive.”

Like I wrote, and quoted for you, I DO NOT want to replace the heating system to gas because it is expensive so obviously suggesting that I will install 4 furnaces, a much more expensive endeavor, is not want I want… That was not my question. My question was: “Is this legal?”

daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5114 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5120 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "3864"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BtJYyObAQmff2MQp.qFP7/kmwU1bBZ1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "djl135e54@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(55) "http://bstoner.wpengine.com/forums/users/daveinbedstuy/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:23:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(3864)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Gas is cheaper than oil which is cheaper than electric.  My gas bill for 2 units (2,560 sq ft) is under $2,000 for the year (heat and hot water).  Consider converting to gas.  Installing 4 separate units will be costly and willl then be 4 separate points for potential problems down the road.

I doubt the seller is “highballing” the estimate.