Can 1" Copper pipes be used for Steam heating?

I have a plumber working in my house right now, and after returning from work, I found out that the two “new runs” were made with what looks to be using 1″ copper pipes.

Can copper lines really be used for Steam Heating?  

My system uses Weil-McLain EG-45
with Slant/Fin 80, which have rated output at**_:_** 620 to 840 Btuh (180??F at 4GPM)
http://www.slantfin.com/index.php/products/baseboard-residential/multi–pak-80

Please let me know your opinion.

mystiky

in Heating 13 years and 8 months ago

9

Please log in, in order to post replies!

9 replies

Newest Oldest

mystiky | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5113 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4934 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "86928"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(7) "mystiky"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BY2fDbcypC3b6SAQyHI.0EpF.7Bost."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(7) "mystiky"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "mystiky@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(22) "/forums/users/mystiky/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:15:49"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(7) "mystiky"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(86928)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

After much discussion, my plumber has replaced the “copper M” runs with the 1″ black steel pipe.   This forum was a great help in me proving my case to him.  Thank you all again.

ellenlourie | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5112 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5110 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209451"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "ellenlourie"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BW7BCPC4MhhU4md6aHcLH/64c1GhM1/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "ellenlourie"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "ellen.lourie@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-06-29 12:47:36"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "ellenlourie"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209451)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

For steam heating system schedule 40 black steel pipe and steam CI fittings must be used. No baseboards, Fire your shoemakers.

wholesalerbill1 | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4934 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5108 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "178980"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(15) "wholesalerbill1"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BWqWbpzPIaV.nbW7YDTL0bM6rRNc9c."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(15) "wholesalerbill1"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(17) "gwazzoo@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "/forums/users/wholesalerbill1/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:38:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(15) "wholesalerbill1"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(178980)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Gateway(Masterplvmber) installed my new steam boiler last November. They ripped out all the cheesy copper that was piped in and replaced it with what should be there. SCH40 black pipe and cast iron fittings. My system runs better then ever and alot quieter too. They pipe boilers the right way.
Listen to what Masterplvmber says. He speaks the gospal when it comes to heating.

mystiky | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5113 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5114 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "86928"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(7) "mystiky"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BY2fDbcypC3b6SAQyHI.0EpF.7Bost."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(7) "mystiky"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "mystiky@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(22) "/forums/users/mystiky/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:15:49"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(7) "mystiky"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(86928)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Tahnk you everyone for your help.  I will be speaking with him today to make sure that it is changed back to the bblack pipe.

masterbuilder | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5112 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5115 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "26835"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "masterbuilder"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BEhqCCOZrWesH0da.UZzi2Nb1a4B.R/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "masterbuilder"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(17) "salemfilm@mac.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(28) "/forums/users/masterbuilder/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:15:50"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "masterbuilder"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(26835)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

The product literature calls out:  **8\. TUBE ENDS READY FOR JOINING** Tubing end is swaged to eliminate couplings, cuts soldering work in half. Steel ele- ments are factory-threaded at both ends.

For hot water or steam.

Only Model H-6X features a 1 1/4″ threaded tubing end.

http://www.slantfin.com/images/stories/Product-Literature/catalogsheet_multipak80_80_10.pdf

Master Plvmber | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5114 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4934 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "1447"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BSHLZQSJWUzjnaSv9fyWJpNYjwcz.u."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "info@gatewayplumbing.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "http://www.GatewayPlumbing.com"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2007-08-10 20:40:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(1447)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Copper and steam do not mix well at all. I see copper fittings that have been pulled apart or twisted loose to break their soldered joints all the time. It’s often a subtle affect that just shows as a little cruddy buildup around the joint. Other times it’s a total separation. Either way, it creates the loss of steam as a gas and makes it necessary for the boiler to keep taking on new water which is corrosive due to its fresh supply of oxygen. Corrosive water will kill your boiler prematurely.
1″ copper is a big red flag and M tubing is the thinnest of the 3 grades: M, L, K
Your Slant/Fin 80 is a bad product to use for steam, I don’t care what the literature says. It’s just cheaper than a traditional radiator. There is no mass to the thin copper pipe and aluminum fins that are its construction. That means when the radiator fills with steam, the heat is immediately released to the surrounding air, and it also cools immediately.
A product like this gives you uneven pulses of heat as opposed to the slow-acting, even heating of a cast iron radiator. And in a 1-pipe system, steam and condensate (cooled steam, as water) pass each other in the same pipe in a counterflow direction. In a small tube radiator like a baseboard heater, there is very little room for this to happen without making noise. The sound of banging pipes is caused by very hot steam encountering cool condensate in horizontal pipes. Baseboard fin-tube heaters do a great job of setting up this undesirable condition to happen. Also, there is no good place to put an air vent on a baseboard heater.
All of this is less of an issue with 2-pipe steam, which you may have. I don’t know. 

Where 1″ pipe is needed in a steam heating system, the right choice is to use threaded black malleable pipe with cast iron fittings in a limited distance.

steam_man | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5113 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5116 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "176846"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "steam_man"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BwTjqVdzbefHKag0RU5TXaF7tQCivs."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "steam_man"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(25) "heat@moltenmechanical.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(31) "http:///forums/users/steam_man/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:25:50"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "steam_man"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(176846)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Wait. Either of those boiler (and I’m not sure why you have both as I understood from your post) can be used for hot water or steam. Are you sure you have steam heat? If so, here’s the deal. Copper can be used for the condensate returns or for piping a hot water zone off your steam boiler. Otherwise steam supply should be Schedule 40 black pipe and Steam fittings. Period. End of story. Anyway, 1″ pipe seems kinda small for a steam supply. Smallest radiator I have piped in a house used 1-1/4″. But then again I have so much to learn.

wiley | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5112 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5117 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "54363"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(5) "wiley"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B6zL3fpD9G5zYTuDmVyD3Hthi/Yhrx0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(5) "wiley"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "wileynyc1@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(24) "/forums/users/wileynyc1/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:16:42"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(5) "wiley"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(54363)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

typically copper is frowned upon with steam because the joints don’t hold up as well as threaded pipe. The copper expands and contracts more under steam. That being said I have one small run in my home that is copper (the rest are all threaded) and it hasn’t given my any issues. Every time a plumber is over and sees it they sigh. In my experience plumbers will opt for copper when they don’t have a threading machine for pipe

mystiky | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5114 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5118 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "86928"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(7) "mystiky"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BY2fDbcypC3b6SAQyHI.0EpF.7Bost."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(7) "mystiky"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "mystiky@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(22) "/forums/users/mystiky/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:15:49"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(7) "mystiky"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(86928)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

By the way, for more information, I looked at the printing on the pipe and in red letters it says type M.