Steam system (single pipe) Balancing Help

Hi, So I’m in my first winter in this new (old) three story house with a very old single pipe system with a relatively recent gas boiler. The radiators are the original cast iron ones. I’m struggling to balance the heating across the rooms. First some rooms heat up instantly and others take forever. Next the boiler cycles quite a bit when it does turn on. Finally, I’ve already replaced the radiator valves on most of the radiators as well as replaced almost all of the steam release valves. As a result everything DOES heat up, it just that it takes so long in some rooms. The other thing I did was a servicing of the gas boiler, with a full cleaning and checkup from a reputable plumbing and heating company I found on Yelp. Now I need a hand, and I don’t want to call this same plumbing & heating company ($175/hr). I either need some tips, or someone to come and observe what might be the issue. I’m sure some of you brownstoners have run into similar issues. Did you read something or have someone come that helped you solve your heat balancing issues? Thanks!

soundhoner

in Heating 9 years and 6 months ago

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soundhoner | 9 years and 4 months ago

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The problem turned out to be that the boiler was low on water – a friendly plumber-of-a-friend walked me through, over the phone, a few troubleshooting steps. First he had me disconnect the thermostat and connect the two heater-specific wires to complete the circuit which kept the boiler thinking it always needed to be on, and eliminated the thermostat from being the culprit (even though a click sound was audible during the short-cycling). Next, while the boiler was repeatedly short-cycling, every few minutes, the plumber had me watch for the water cutoff device’s light to go on. He was right – it did, every time it was short-cycling. The water gauge showed half-full during this time, by the way. So he had me, using the water intake lever, put more water into the boiler til that gauge showed 3/4 full. At that point the boiler went on, and STAYED on, and magically, all the radiators in the first and second floor went to life immediately, within 30 minutes, things were piping hot. Since things we working he told me to call him the next day, which I dutifully did and happily scheduled an appointment for him to come and look over the system. He suspects the water sensor might be at fault. He doesn’t think there’s a leak because the water didn’t go down all that much in the following few hours (he had me call him back). I was pleased with this. The thing is, I had spent quite a bit for a ‘boiler maintenance’ by top-rated (Yelp) plumbing/heating folks who, while they cleaned the boiler and supposedly tested, and they never caught this, even though they ran the system. I called a separate ‘top rated’ Yelp company, and the very first thing they said was ‘your PSI is too low, increase it to 3’. Which I knew was bollocks, thanks to comments in this thread. I’ll report back if anyone’s interested with future findings. As a homeowner, I feel like the biggest challenge is finding people in the trade that you trust and that are willing to trust you enough as a client in the beginning.

steam_man | 9 years and 4 months ago

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Well…There’s a problem right there. Turn your Main down to 1 and your differential down to .5

soundhoner | 9 years and 4 months ago

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To respond to above, here’s a pic of the pressuretrol.

soundhoner | 9 years and 4 months ago

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Now that it’s very cold, the boiler’s still short-cycling quite rapidly, and the front rooms are colder than ever. I’m guessing the ambient cold is making the steam condense to water more quickly than enough steam + pressure can make it out to the further radiators.

soundhoner | 9 years and 4 months ago

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Nope, I’m still looking into the issue. It has never been urgent, although it is uncomfortable. An additional symptom is that the colder it is outside, the slower the system works and the more imbalanced. I can hear the thing turning on and staying on for just a few minutes before staying off for a few minutes. The thermostat is a few degrees above ambient. I don’t know how or why the previous homeowner put up with this.

hoytdude | 9 years and 5 months ago

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I am curious if this problem ever got solved? We had the same issue for weeks. Put in new replacement vents, largest (D) on the top floor where heat wasn’t, etc. It helped, but we still had inconsistency…. one day the 3rd floor LR radiator would heat, the next day, not so much. Today oil company guy came out (3rd visit from them). After listening to my explanation of what was going on, he said he had a theory, and then proceeded to fill our boiler tank to the top with water. Then peered inside, and showed me a small cascade of water draining into the firebox. Ugh! Bottom line: Boiler has a leak. Some steam pressure is being lost up the chimney. So the system as a whole isn’t coming up to adequate pressure (1.5 PSI) for the vents, which means the end elements don’t heat consistently. The boiler dates from the 1950s and we’ve had it since we bought the house 14 years ago, so I guess I shouldn’t complain. We’re going to try to limp through the rest of the winter while we explore replacement options. Have you been checked for leaks?

eman134 | 9 years and 5 months ago

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Check that the main vents are not fouled (the vents in the basement on the end of the steam main) Follow steam man sizing suggestions, but balancing sream requires a fair amount of trial and error, Which rooms are cold?…which are hot? Forget adjustable air vents…they create nothing but trouble, endlessly unbalancing the system. You can contact me via my contct info in my profile, but I am booked solid for the next 2 weeks

steam_man | 9 years and 6 months ago

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Sounds like the boiler is oversized and the venting is incomplete. You’re not going to do much about the boiler but the venting can be worked on and solve a bit of your issue. Here’s how. Hoffman #40 vents on all the rads. Hoffman #1A full or 3/4 open at the top of every riser and Hoffman #4A at the mains. Should keep you nice and toasty. I would give a vote of confidence toward hiring MasterPlVmber to evaluate the system though. It will be money well spent.

slopefarm | 9 years and 6 months ago

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I defer to the professionals here, but if you want to try a bit of balancing first, then yes, follow tinkerswagon’s advice. Put large vents (Gorton D) on the radiators that are heating up too slowly and small vents (Gorton 4) on the radiators that are heating up too quickly. But if you really have short cycling, this won’t solve it, and follow MP’s advice. If you are going to replace vents, make sure the heat is off and the radiators are cold before taking vents off and wrap the threads of the new vents with teflon tape before screwing them in.

thetinkerswagon | 9 years and 6 months ago

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glad master plumber came in here about short cycling. my neighbor, a licensed engineer, swapped out some radiators for smaller ones and now his system is short cycling and nothing is getting warmer. this is not really my subject but I will say this, for the rooms that are not warming, I would think about installing larger vents in the rooms which take longer. it may (it will) help. in so far as the sizing of the system, that is out of my league. Steve

Master Plvmber | 9 years and 6 months ago

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Your boiler may be improperly sized for the system it serves. Since you mentioned it’s short cycling and you’re living with a serious imbalance in heating, I’m guessing it’s way too big. Few heating contractors take the time to do the math to come up with a proper replacement boiler size. Solving this stuff is what I do. www.72fLLC.com Do you know what your pressure settings are? Or can you post a picture of the pressure regulating device (Honeywell pressuretrol)?

GreenThinker | 9 years and 6 months ago

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Seems you need to change the heat cycle rate on your thermostat to (1) thats the rate it should be for steam and gravity systems. Also, you can look into a thermostat that can connect to wireless indoor temperature sensors. So for instance, you can place one in a idea location or multiple sensors around the whole house and it averages the temperature together. Also, you can buy some hoffman adjustable air valves, you set them so they vent faster at the top floor and slower on the bottom floor.