Need help - converting to gas heat/hot water

Our oil bills are crazy ($1200 last month, $500 the month before) and we are thinking about converting to gas heat and hot water before the New Years so we can get the National Grid rebate before it expires.  We got 2 estimates about the same price but one plumber said he would definitely get permits (cost $1400) and the other did not mention it.  Anyone have experience on this? Are permits necessary for this? Also we have a 4 story brownstone – one recommended a 50 Gallon water heater and the other 65 gallon – should there be a any advantages to the smaller heater? Anyone have experience about how much savings to expect by the conversion?  thanks in advance for the advice!

newbrook

in Heating 12 years and 6 months ago

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newbrook | 12 years and 6 months ago

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THanks for the amazing information everyone. I really appreciate the input!

steam_man | 12 years and 6 months ago

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NYer1, There is no question. Do the conversion. Cost savings will be in the hundreds in the first year alone. I can’t say I agree with the wait and see approach. As a heating professional who is not bidding on your project I am telling you to do the swap. As for the permits, it’s a gamble. I would say the company that is doing it with permits has more to lose if they cut corners so in this case it’s almost like an insurance policy, but at the same time we have worked with licensed plumbers who have done high quality installations without permits. Get references and call them. Lastly, don’t get sucked into the boiler Nat Grid will give you. It’s not worth the scrap value of its iron (just this boilerman’s opinion). Ask for a Burnham or at least a Smith.    For the hot water heater, the thing you want to know is the recovery rate of the heaters that are being proposed. The one with the higher recovery rate is the one you want assuming the same capacity. BTW, the price you’re being given doesn’t sound unfair.   Happy New Year.   -SteamMan

cobbledhill | 12 years and 6 months ago

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I did this a few years ago for about $8500\. SO glad. Heating bills were cut in half. But I agree with Bruce, forget about that rebate. National Grid gave me three companies who all cam and gave bids. Call them in the spring when they aren’t so busy because you’ll be a few days without heat when the oil tank is removed. Also, tell oil company not to deliver or deliver SMALL amounts. I had a half tank which was messy to remove and wasteful. I used Parkset and they were just fine. don’t let them charge tax. this is a capital improvement. good luck.

brucef | 12 years and 6 months ago

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Sorry MP, here in NJ our calendar is still afew weeks out from Sandy work.   We are doing changeouts, but postponing all “elective surgery”.

Master Plvmber | 12 years and 6 months ago

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You have a very dim view of this process, Brucef. There are more HVAC and plumbing and heating companies than there is Sandy work and we do these conversions all winter long. We have several in progress now and, save for very few exceptions, it’s not a big deal.

brucef | 12 years and 6 months ago

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This job must be done through boiler dep’t, gas co. won’t do it any other way. You will need tank removal cert., asbestos cert., chimney cert. You will most likely need plumbing permit to increase sizing of gas lines, and permit for that portion also. None of these will flow smoothly, and you don’t want to be sitting in the cold while you regret your haste.

brucef | 12 years and 6 months ago

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What you are considering, is in the long run, a good idea. Your approach is greatly flawed, based on the priorities you have listed. The present offers from NG may not be offered in the future, but the amount of that discount pales compared to the costs you will incur from making rash and unwise decisions under a false sense of time pressure. Your choices will effect your expenses and values for 20 years. Right now Hvac is booked doing Sandy work and changeouts due to failures. They are unable to give you the attention you need, they are just caught at the wrong time. Get your system tuned, turn down the T-stat, and do your homework.

ellenlourie | 12 years and 6 months ago

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if you will switch to high efficiency boiler, you will not need to deal with chimney. Dal oing this conversion without permit is an illegal work you you will get substantial fines. Make sure the permit not only gets opened, but also closed. Avoid cover up work, deal only with licensed installer, check his 3 similar last installations done in the last 3 month. you want to deal with installer involved in boiler installations on regular basis. Run report on DOB website on his license #. see how many boilers he installed recently. get customer information from DOB website and call them. Ask them about experience with this installer. Also check installations done over year ago, and ask about savings and warranty support they got.

bobjohn | 12 years and 6 months ago

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we had $1000 heat oil bills when we moved into our house. Then we had boiler originally built 100 years ago. It was designed for firewood with gravity fed water heating. and then retrofited with oil injector and water pump. Switching to modern H/E gas boiler and five zone heating system reduced bills to $200-300/month. I am not sure what oil boiler you have, but generally older boilers not very efficient. Switching to gas also will free up space from the oil tanks and you will not get that anoing smell of oil in your basement.   I would be careful on replacing boiler without permit. DoB register the serial number of the boiler. It would be hard for you to explain how the unregistered number got into your house. Also you would not be able to get deduction if you do not register work. I also should mention that gas, oil and heating are pretty dangerous things. I would not recomend cutting corners here. i.e. if you not reline chimney, you will get headachs from CO and then your house will burn because of gas leak and then the old oil tank will explode (because you did not remove it). or something like this.   about the water heater. personally I did not notice much difference in gas bills between smaller and larger water heater. My wife was paranoid about running out of hot water so I got the largest heater, which could fit though the basement door and I went for the high recovery model. I have no complains.  Another option is to use main boiler to heat up water as well. Muster plumber can explain pros and cons of this approach better. He also can give you his estimate as well. finally replacing boiler in winter could be difficult because your house will stay without heat. Did you take it in concidiration?

cate | 12 years and 6 months ago

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    bool(true)
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    bool(true)
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}

Curious why your oil bils are so high. Are you semi or completely detached? We have a three story (plus cellar) row house with no insulation of any sort. Our oil bill for heat and hot water (they are on the same boiler — we do not have separate hot water heaters) averages $300 a month all year. (Individual winter bills are higher than $300 a month, naturally — the one that just arrived was for $500 or $600.) FYI it costs about $12,000 to switch to gas for the new boiler and installation. That does not include permits or relining the chimney to accomodate gas. I’m no mathemetician or plumber, but I’ve been told it’s not really worth it unless your boiler is old and needs to be replaced anyway.