Question for the Plumbing Regulars: Help with a Gas Boiler Question...

Thanks eman, bobjbkln and MP. Yes, unfortunately, it came down to cost for us. Would have liked to do the indirect option but we just couldn’t make it work money wise for us at this point. Might be at a better point financially in the future when the time comes to replace the WH. Boiler is off and I will be looking into replacing the relay switch as directed.

nalusurf

in Heating and Cooling 8 years and 8 months ago

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nalusurf | 8 years and 8 months ago

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I have a Weil Mclain gas boiler, EG model, with a heating coil. This Spring I was finally able to install a separate HWH so that the boiler does not supply the hot water in the Summer. Twice now, the most recent was this morning, the boiler was making a loud buzzing-type noise while it was cycling on. The noise stopped as soon as the boiler cycled off. It does not appear to be an alarm as all alarms lights remain green. The boiler is separated from the hot water supply now with shut off valves but the unit has been left on. Can anyone tell me what the noise is and what it means? Should the unit be shut off during the non-heating months? Thanks in advance everyone!

eman134 | 8 years and 8 months ago

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It sounds like the relay for the hot water coil is still enabled causing the boiler to run unecessarily. The short answer is shut off the boiler for the nonheating season. The long answer is that whoever installed the hw heater should have disabled the aquastat on the heating coil so the boiler would not call for heat in the summer

Master Plvmber | 8 years and 8 months ago

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The loud buzzing is a relay inside the boiler. It should be found and replaced before heating season.

nalusurf | 8 years and 8 months ago

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Thank you eman and Master P.

shahnandersen

in Heating and Cooling 8 years and 8 months ago

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@eman134. I absolutely agree with shutting the boiler off in the non heating season. But I have a question about your other recommendation. Doesn’t it make sense to leave the heating coil connected so that in the winter, the boiler can be used to preheat the water going into the separate water heater?

nalusurf | 8 years and 8 months ago

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@bobjbkln. The reason we put the HWH in was to stop the waste of the boiler running to supply hot water, especially in the summer. The amount of times that the HWH has to fire up to maintain temperature is way more efficient than using the coil in the boiler for any aspect of the hot water, I believe. So, we installed shut off valves separating the HWH from the boiler completely, but they also allow us to use the boiler for HW if the HWH fails. It would seem to me that using the coil plus the HWH would be unnecessary excess energy wasting.

Master Plvmber | 8 years and 8 months ago

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Making some assumptions about it’s age and condition, even a standard boiler runs at about 80% efficiency. A gas-fired tank-type water heater operates at 65%-70% efficiency. If you’re using a storage tank or indirect water heater you’re way ahead of the game. The idea of not using the boiler to make hot water in summer is often wrong .
Water heaters lose heat by a rate of about 10°f per hour. Indirect water heaters and storage tanks lose about 6°-12°f per day when not in use.

nalusurf | 8 years and 8 months ago

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Thanks MP. Boiler is about 3 years old, good condition.
We have a 75 gal HWH, no storage tank or indirect. I’m confused, should I still be using the boiler to produce HW at any point?

eman134 | 8 years and 8 months ago

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What you could have done, rather than install a seperate hot water heater, would have been to install an indirect hot water tank run by a hydronic zone off your steam boiler…probably a pricier installation than a seperate plain vanilla hw heater, but more efficient. Your second option would have been to install an indirect powered by your tankless coil…again more efficient than a plain vanilla hw heater, but apricier installation. At this point you have a seperate hw heater, and feeding via a tankless coil off the boiler would be an inefficient use of the setup that you have. I defer to MP’s opinion on this one

shahnandersen

in Heating and Cooling 8 years and 8 months ago

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@nalusurf My recommendation was to turn off the boiler in the non-heating season and just use your WH (no, it’s not a HWH, it heats cold water). But in the heating season run the water through the boiler so that it is preheated before it goes to your WH (now actually an HWH) so that the water heater does not have to work so hard.

Master Plvmber | 8 years and 8 months ago

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Taking water from a tankless coil and putting it into an insulated storage tank is one of the better ways to maximize efficiency in this all-too-common Brooklyn row house setup. There are many ways to define “efficiency” and to skew the numbers to work for you, but the reality is that free-standing, gas-fired water heaters, while significantly cheap and easy to maintain and operate, should be among the least desirable ways to make hot water. They cool constantly via their flue and they collect insulating debris at their base as part of normal operation. That debris inhibits the tanks ability to absorb the heat of the flame you pay to create. It’s 60-year old technology regardless of what nonsense the sales brochures say about them using swirling/cleaning technology, anode rod protection, or whatever else.
My bottom line with making hot water is that it’s best to create it however you can and then store it immediately and very locally in the way that allows for the least amount of energy loss. That only ever happens in a sealed vessel with an external heat source and n o flue connection.
That is, use an indirect water heater or an insulated storage tank with either your space-heating boiler or a separate and dedicated heat source.