installing a radiator

Anyone know the ballpark cost to have a new steam radiator installed? basically the existing one is big and positioned so as to take up space that could otherwise be occupied by a desk or bookshelf so i want to have a new one installed under the window adjacent to it. i do not think this would involve any plumbing changes other than having the pipe valve coming out of the floor elbow to the right rather than the left…….any insight is much appreciated.

randolph

in Heating and Cooling 2 years and 9 months ago

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Guest User | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Correction: MP and I agree on improper operation of cast iron baseboard radiators with single pipe steam *as the length of the radiator increases.
I like 2 to 4 feet. And will go for 5 to 6 feet in a pinch. No more than that though. As the above referenced heatinghelp.com poster informed, he can hear some water sloshing internally at 10 feet

Guest User | 2 years and 8 months ago

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@randolph MP and I agree on improper operation of cast iron baseboard radiators with single pipe steam.
MP incorrectly assumes that as a property manager I am not slave to my tenants’ complaints about noisy and cold radiators 24/7 since we use modern tenant portal correspondence methods, and since NYC invites tenants to complain about poor property management via 311 without recourse for fraudulent complaints.
I would not install these baseboard radiators if they weren’t more spatially convenient in many tiny NYC room instances.
(As for qualifications, I have taught numerous building supers to undo incorrect licensed plumber installations and adjustments on these old systems.)
I also agree with this poster that they can look weird when installed with enough pitch to operate properly like this poster repeats of Dan Holohan (a top steam guru): https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/159892/cast-iron-baseboard
They look less weird when hidden under a desk or a wooden enclosure.
Can your layout tolerate the wall hung slenderized unit Eman recommended somewhere above? If so , use that instead. I plan to try one myself next week in this pictured 73 sq. ft. room posing as a bedroom. [20220811_121155](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:cq3N:20220811_121155.jpg.jpg) Can’t wait to see how it looks. I’m guessing it might seem a bit weird because it is quite unusual

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Master plumber: if you are happy with your business the way it is or are not a homeowner struggling to understand what went wrong when you selected the lowest bidder, what would be the point of reading what i write? I think you probaly have a pretty good grasp of what is going on but others do not and still others prefer not to; ignorance is bliss.

Master Plvmber | 2 years and 8 months ago

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I know I’m going to regret posting this. This thread has to die. But I just can’t let this go unsaid: I see those cast iron baseboard radiators connected to 1-pipe steam systems from time to time and not one of them ever has worked right, quietly, without spitting water from their air vents. Not once. Never. [Screen Shot 2022-08-11 at 9](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s2/:brownstoner:uTtR:screenshot20220811at9.53.25am.png.jpg) The people who really want you to buy these things under any circumstances, are telling you not to in permanent print in their installation manual. That’s how sure they are too.
I don’t and will never read a post by doorsbytinkerswagon because I have enough crazy in my life as it is so I don’t know if he’s made this point, but this is my one and only point. For what it’s worth. If Jeremy says it works well, it can only be because he doesn’t live with it.
Now excuse me while I go set my computer on fire.

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Sorry randolph. But the plumbers came on here and beat jeremy up without offering him any reason why doing something that does not look right might be bad for everyone. In truth, honest contractors hate bad actors (working in an environment where short cuts are taken and laws are broken makes it hard for conscientous people who want to do the right thing). I believe jeremy is a good actor who can be a better actor with some perspective. The opportunity availed itself and i took it.

I understand you and look forward to your one liners. They get right to the point.

randolph | 2 years and 8 months ago

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cool – still not a great excuse to hijack my thread, but carry on as you wish i guess.

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Randolph. We want people who work in this city to strive to make it better for all of us.

randolph | 2 years and 8 months ago

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i just wanted advice on moving a radiator so that i can put my desk in the corner of the room?

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Jeremy: you are missing the point a little. I trust it works and as i said i would probably do that in my own basement. But understand there are a class of customers and people (you can include me in that class) who look at something in a building and immediatly spot that it is out of place and immediately make a judgement about the people who do such things. I go through this in my business with customers on limited income when they ask me to make a quick repair with a crappy lock and i am not proud of it. To me, to my professional clients, it would “look” shoddy. To a customer in park slope, the east side of manhattan, or in brooklyn heights, if it looks “shoddy” or out of place, the judgement will stop there, they will not care if it works and they will not care who the rocket scientist is who designed it.

I cannot explain this to you because you did not come up in this and for me to understand it took a very long time of working in it. I did tell you that my boss explained some of this to me when i was probably 16. He did good work. But i did n ot care to understand what he was saying because i was young and naive and never thought it would serve me. When i got out of college, i took a job at a resort condo complex for a management firm. We had an unused guard house at the gate. The board did not want passers by looking in the glass windows. I said “i’ll paint the glass black from the inside”. My boss said the hell you will. Start doing crap like that and the property will look like ….. the answer was cheap mini blinds. My boss was a pro. He did not want the place to look like slum lords ran it, to use mp’s term.

I bet you have the management side of your business down well. You probably did great in college and communicate well and know how to talk to a board or owners and manage the money. But you did not come up in this – you sound like i did when i would try to save money at the cost of everything else on the proprty. It took like 3 years of working in the maintenance side of this for professional managers for me to really get it – that part of managing the property is making it look like it all belongs in place as well as work right and understand how that contibutes to the value of the asset and community. And your insistance at pushing back at people who are much older and more experienced, it makes you sound like i was when i was just out of college and thiught i knew it all when really i had no understanding as to what was going on; now i know i was simply naive and had a lot to learn.

I am not saying do not take jobs where money is the overriding factor. I help people all the time who have both money problems and door problems. But for the sake of my business and the clientele i really want to work for, i don’t post pictures of that work on the internet. By keeping the shoddy looking stuff hidden, you will get fewer calls from people who want shoddy work and more calls from people who want good work and life will get easier.

I have suffered the headaches where money is the overriding factor and those prople do not understand that they are their own worst enemy. It is a mindset.

Guest User | 2 years and 8 months ago

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@tinker I’m happy to give you a tour of a wall mounted baseboard radiator during heating season if you want to see how well and properly they are installed and operate – and to see how beneficial and desirable a low profile radiator can be

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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So jeremy. I don’t know your market but i have an opinion about that job. When i began this business, i did not understand my market and demgraphics and types of customers. I do now.

I try to cultivate only professionals who see the benefit of doing things right. Those professionals are easier to work for because they know they want it done right and they have the money to do it correctly. Maybe they exist in your field.

None of this means we don’t maybe work for people who need our help but i would not advertise that on this board. I would not post a picture of something that does not look right because a customer is on limited income and had a break in and had me put a cheap lock on a door.

If you put only puctures up of top notch work, you will cultivate top notch clientele and will not leave yourself open to criticism from people who do not understand that maybe the customer’s focus is on the bottom line (unless those people are senior citizens who are honest with me, i try to avoid them). In time, if you are good at what you do, you will find that o nly well healed clients call, me thinks.

In so far as many contractors being under budget here, that is mostly the fault of a certain element of contractor and customer. If we all played by the rules and bid fairly and honestly, the customers would have no choice but to pay. But there is an element of customer who knows there are contractors who do not play by the rules and customers keep shopping until they find them. This is how trash gets dumped on the road running by the park over here where i live. The city has to make up its mind as to whether it wants to enforce the rules across the board or just keep picking on those of us they deem to have money and take responsibility and so long as they pick on those of us who take responsibility, the bottom feeding customers and bottom feeding contractors will still persist.

Lurker | 2 years and 8 months ago

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While it’s really generous of Eman to provide such useful and valuable help, I’d really appreciate it if this thread about heating options would keep going to keep my mind off the actual heat outside. Who’s next?!

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Jeremy: by the looks of things, people working in any of this in this city can be part of the problem or part of the solution. Its our choice.

Guest User | 2 years and 8 months ago

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for a plain vanilla install probably $250-300… i generally don’t put radiators on blocks…i use the correct fittings so they rest on the floor

Guest User | 2 years and 8 months ago

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at any rate…regarding the original OP question… it should cost at most $500 plus the cost of the radiator (typically $2-400 bucks)
jeremy …good luck representing developers trying to push out stabilized tenants… i dont get involved in that creepy stuff…my client base is homeowners trying to improve their heating systems, not their speadsheets

lkrshacmzcy | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Who would’ve seen this coming from the firs post…
Hope you get a Plumber soon! Check back in when you do!

lkrshacmzcy | 2 years and 8 months ago

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Who would’ve seen this coming from the firs post…
Hope you get a Plumber soon! Check back in when you do!

Guest User | 2 years and 8 months ago

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@tinker I could tell you horror stories about the mechanicals of the 24 unit building in which the baseboard radiator pic was taken. Former owner installed steel fin radiators in some apartments with pipe diameter bigger at the radiator than at the supply pipe. This made the balance terrible, the water hammer awful, and the air vent leaks damaging. Unfortunately, even building buyers do not catch this stuff. These issues went unnoticed and did not devalue the sale in which my client purchased several years ago. NYC contractors are too often uninformed or are working under proper budget. It makes for some interesting problem solving for me while managing the messes they leave behind. Eccentric bushings were a big help as a temporary band aid on the above heating system until budget allows for replacing non cast iron units with cast iron to better balance the building again like it once was decades ago in a time when people cared more about the work they did than quarterly revenue

Guest User | 2 years and 8 months ago

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@Eman @mp wow, did I offend you in any of the above messages?
Do you know that the tenants of the building you cited above waited until the property was sold to a developer before they sued my employer’s client, which was after many years of tenants letting the former mom and pop owners skate by with no such action?
Have ever either of you ever received a stop work order, subcontractor lien, lawsuit, been fired by a client?