Boiler seems empty, not sure why?
So I usually flush the rusty water out of the gas boiler once a month or so, just run it until it’s clear. I went to do that today and nothing came out and the water fill glass was empty. Boiler has an automatic refill which had both a green and red light lit up and it didn’t kick on to refill.
Obviously the boiler isn’t being used now but any ideas what the issue could be?
And can I leave it as it until our pre-heating season servicing or could it cause issues by leaving it completely empty for next few months?
If helpful, it’s a gas boiler for a 1-pipe steam radiator system. Thank you all for any advice!
stickerhappy
in Heating and Cooling 3 years and 9 months ago
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45 replies
cate | 3 years and 9 months ago
One day when in person meetings are practical….
lkrshacmzcy | 3 years and 9 months ago
I think we all know not to take the forum serious in that sense; everyone throws their lighthearted jabs around…I just returned one back to him in another post!
That is why I said I would love to actually meet everyone in person one day!
lkrshacmzcy | 3 years and 9 months ago
I think we all know not to take the forum serious in that sense; everyone throws their lighthearted jabs around…I just returned one back to him in another post!
That is why I said I would love to actually meet everyone in person one day!
Guest User | 3 years and 9 months ago
@chris it’s the urbandad way. I hope he laughs at my comment because I am half joking.
lkrshacmzcy | 3 years and 9 months ago
lol
lkrshacmzcy | 3 years and 9 months ago
lol
Guest User | 3 years and 9 months ago
Google ‘blowing down the boiler’ – it explains the steps.
stickerhappy | 3 years and 9 months ago
When you say blowing down the boiler, that means just running the water until it runs clear?
hkapstein | 3 years and 9 months ago
That’s fair. All I’m saying is I would try to troubleshoot the issue a bit more before calling a plumber. I do think MP is a good plumber by the way, I just like to give him a hard time, which I’m sure he appreciates. Why did his crew not identify all these expensive problems? Because the boiler was working.
If you post a question like this on the forum, and the answer is, call a plumber, what’s the point? But there’s no way he could know exactly what is going on from the information here. He knows the leak(if the water leaked out) is below the sight glass, which means it could either be in the return or in the boiler because water does not drain upwardly. With the top of the loop below the sight glass, it cannot be said which one. I assume you would have stated if you saw evidence of water on the floor. Can you confirm the water level was in the middle of the sight glass after the last blow down? Blowing down the boiler while the feeder is failed would also deplete the water.
@MP by the way, the reason I said to clean the probes on the LWCO was not because I don’t kn ow what I’m talking about, but because the OP actually stated that this probe controlled the feeder. But taking a look, that model is just a low water cutoff. I once had a licensed plumber install one of these below the boiler and it passed inspection. They’re required in NYC as a backup LWCO.
stickerhappy | 3 years and 9 months ago
Well to be honest, Gateway handled the most recent servicing about a year ago. They did not try to upsell me on reconfiguring anything though they also didn’t point out any of the potential issues raised here, though I am grateful MP has taken the time to do that since obviously he can’t be present at every servicing.
TBH, that was also the first time it’s ever been serviced by a real company in probably 10 years. I will admit it’s usually not really get much attention unless a problem arises and that’s luckily been usually minor stuff in that period.
hkapstein | 3 years and 9 months ago
Why is there a problem with the location of the hartford loop? Even if it is a little low, it’s wouldn’t cause this problem, it would probably just reduce the time you’d have to react if both low water cutoffs failed, but I doubt an extra inch would make much difference anyway, the top of the loop is usually about 2 inches below the fill level, so how much would you want to raise it anyway?
The first thing that should be checked is whether the water valve to the feeder is open. Was the boiler serviced this year? Maybe they didnt to open the valve and refill it. If it fills you could check for leaks.
If it doesn’t feel, I’d probably open the bypass valve and fill the boiler to see what happens. If water leaks from some visible point. Maybe wait a few days and see what happens. You probably need to service the feeder. Try blowing it down a few times and maybe it will unstick.
Now here’s where my non expert opinion comes in. If you hire a plumber like MP to service your frankenboiler, he will redo the piping and replace the components until it’s installed the way he like s it, a lot of work on a decades old boiler. But that will not be the cheapest way to handle it, nor will it necessarily perform any better, and it’s even possible, although not necessarily likely, that opening a valve would fix the issue.
stickerhappy | 3 years and 9 months ago
Ok so what’s the first step solution for me? (Aside from getting a pro to take a look)
Repiping the Hartford Loop to function properly?
Then seeing if anything changes?
How easy is this fix given the current setup and piping?
Just to be clear this exact piping/boiler setup has worked for decades with no real issues.
JohnHancock | 3 years and 9 months ago
Lots of one up man ship mansplaining
Guest User | 3 years and 9 months ago
@MP This is exactly what rankles me about this forum. No offense to anyone but I agree with you.
Master Plvmber | 3 years and 9 months ago
Ha! So, you were serious, @urbandad, about my answer being “too vague” and that @stickerhappy should check other forums.
Fantastic.
With statements like this:
“Why has nobody suggested pulling and cleaning the probe?”
You should probably consider not commenting when you don’t know. That’s what I do. I don’t comment when I don’t know.
To answer your questions:
1. The poster states the water is suddenly completely gone from the site glass. There is no evidence of a leak around the boiler or flue. The “specific” reason it would have to be in the return is that the Hartford Loop connection is too high, above the lower gauge valve. If you don’t know what’s wrong with that then go back to your “plumbing and heating forums” and ask there. Could the leak be in the boiler? Sure. But in the absence of a water mark or wet spot, we would do well to move on to a less obvious cause for the failure of containment.
2. “Why is the boiler not filling?” There could be several reasons and that’s why this post exists. My guess, because I’ve been doing this and only this for over 30 yea rs, is that the leak has existed for a long time and is coming to light now because there is an issue with the 120-volt feed circuit which, when working, has done a good job of masking the water loss without providing any feedback via a counter or meter.
3. See 1. The Hartford Loop is there and set at a specific height to keep water in the boiler in the inevitable event of a leak in the return piping. Failure to set it at the right height, in this case too low, results in the exact condition we see here.
hkapstein | 3 years and 9 months ago
I’m skeptical.
1) There’s no specific reason the leak would have to be in the return piping. A leak could be there, or it could be in the boiler, such as at the boiler drain, or there could be no leak at all.
2) If the water level is that low, the fill valve should operate to refill the boiler, or fill continuously as water leaks onto the floor somewhere. Why is the boiler not refilling?
3) Why is the hartford loop too low for the boiler? You wouldn’t want it above the water level in the boiler would you?
stickerhappy | 3 years and 9 months ago
No, not at all MP. I actually appreciate the time you gave to your reply with detailed diagram. I can’t say I understood all the parts but I get your point about it being a frankenboiler and I’ll admit it’s had work done by a handful of non-heating specialists.
I will always appreciate the advice of a true expert.
hkapstein | 3 years and 9 months ago
I think it’s too vague. You might get more specific answers on one of the plumbing and heating forums.
Master Plvmber | 3 years and 9 months ago
Thank you, @janedrew.