What's Between Brownstone top floor Ceiling and Roof?

It’s not actually that bad since I applied the caulking. That’s not what I’m seeing restorationcontractor- this was a design choice as far as I can tell. The ceiling in the opposite room is the same height as the ceiling boards- not the joists- they drop below that same level. There is roughly a foot between these ceilings and the roof- and after more poking around ,there is some type of crummy insulation in that space. The issue is lack of quality and completeness and that the spaces between the boards get drafty as heck. But sealing off the space for air flow has reduced the problem immensely.

If I did all you’ve suggested, the ceiling would be very low.

But on your roofing point- it is already sealed with a silver paint- is that different from what you have in mind?

emily.abruzzo

in General Discussion 4 years and 8 months ago

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emily.abruzzo | 4 years and 9 months ago

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I have a very drafty ceiling on the top floor of a 100 year old brownstone. Cooling the room is a nightmare. There are 11″ between the bottom of this ceiling and the top of the flat rubber roof above. Can anyone lend any insight as to what’s likely between this ceiling and the roof? Ancient insulation? Crawl space?

Here are pictures: http://imgur.com/a/YsdBasf

I’m thinking about using wood putty and caulking to seal the gaps between many of the ceiling boards to reduce the draftiness and improve heating/cooling.

GreenThinker | 4 years and 9 months ago

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There usually is a 2+ foot crawl space. It seems to me like this house was either never constructed with this crawl space, and it’s just joists and boards, with god knows what between them, with your roof on top. Or someone in the past removed the crawlspace to raise the ceiling height in the apartment.

I wouldn’t recommend wood putty, it would just crack. Foam spray sealant and caulking is better. But it won’t be a huge improvement, and certainly won’t make the space more comfortable. Best long term solution is putting 4 inches of polyiso foam board on the roof.

emily.abruzzo | 4 years and 9 months ago

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Thanks I’ll check out spray sealant in addition to the caulking. I’m optimistic it’ll make a significant difference because the adjacent room is consistently 10 degrees cooler just as a result of its finish. The hot air seems just to come through the cracks in the boards, so I suspect there is some type of (asbestos?) insulation in that space.

I was originally thinking putting white finish thermax between the joists, but it’s impossibly hard to get in the city afaik. Would polyiso be doable on the flat rubber/silver asphalt sealed roof? Is that something a roofer can just add the next time they seal it without creating leaking/drainage risks?

emily.abruzzo | 4 years and 9 months ago

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Thanks I’ll check out spray sealant in addition to the caulking. I’m optimistic it’ll make a significant difference because the adjacent room is consistently 10 degrees cooler just as a result of its finish. The hot air seems just to come through the cracks in the boards, so I suspect there is some type of (asbestos?) insulation in that space.

I was originally thinking putting white finish thermax between the joists, but it’s impossibly hard to get in the city afaik. Would polyiso be doable on the flat rubber/silver asphalt sealed roof? Is that something a roofer can just add the next time they seal it without creating leaking/drainage risks?

shahnandersen

in General Discussion 4 years and 9 months ago

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I assume that you don’t have a roof hatch with an entryway that passes through that space that you could look to see what is there. In any case, why don’t you just laminate sheetrock directly to the ceiling boards between the joists. That should stop the drafts as well as the dropped ceiling in the other room.

landlord | 4 years and 9 months ago

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had blown insulation installed in my brownstone’s crawl space. made a big difference on heating costs. also installed to vents on the roof.

emily.abruzzo | 4 years and 9 months ago

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bobjbkln- there is no such roof hatch- I suspect there may have been a different layout once upon a time, because the current roof access hatch was clearly put in within the last 20-30 years. I didn’t want to use drywall because I have to do this work on my own for the time being. How would you fasten the drywall to the ceiling boards?

I may go that route next year if I don’t like the look of painted caulk/foam.

emily.abruzzo | 4 years and 9 months ago

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bobjbkln- there is no such roof hatch- I suspect there may have been a different layout once upon a time, because the current roof access hatch was clearly put in within the last 20-30 years. I didn’t want to use drywall because I have to do this work on my own for the time being. How would you fasten the drywall to the ceiling boards?

I may go that route next year if I don’t like the look of painted caulk/foam.

shahnandersen

in General Discussion 4 years and 9 months ago

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Not really my expertise, but I assume one would use construction adhesive and maybe a few laminating drywall screws to hold it until the adhesive fully sets. I would think 1/4″ drywall would be adequate and would be much easier to work with than thicker sheets. Just be sure to check with someone knowledgeable before you do this.

JohnHancock | 4 years and 9 months ago

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Heating in winter must fly out the ceiling as well. Unless you’re in love with the beam look I personally would insulate the area between the beams with insulation bats then attach at least 1/2″ sheetrock to the beams and seal it tight, and probably roughly skimcoat the bricks between you and your neighbors before that

dorkofwindsor | 4 years and 9 months ago

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Doesn’t matter what you do, unless you are going to tigerfoam the entire ceiling yourself . My top floor ceiling has no insulation At all too – but the roof has 2” of polyiso foam on top of roof below the membrane. I’ll guess yours does not – which would be like having a cardboard box for a ceiling. If you spray foam though you will need drywall as a fire barrier. If you use Rockwool etc you could hang a drop ceiling below it. Either way, whoever did that was extremely ill-advised.

catboot | 4 years and 9 months ago

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Looks like the crawl space/cock loft was removed at some point. No wonder it’s drafty, as these boards were never meant to be exposed. As built, the house would likely have had a plaster and lath ceiling a few feet below. My guess is what we are seeing is really the underside of the roof.

lucie | 4 years and 8 months ago

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How high is you ceiling?

lucie | 4 years and 8 months ago

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How high is you ceiling?

lucie | 4 years and 8 months ago

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And who pays for the heat and cooling?

lucie | 4 years and 8 months ago

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And who pays for the heat and cooling?

lucie | 4 years and 8 months ago

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Depending on the answers I would do 2 layers.
1. Rigid insulation cut to fit tight between existing narrow beams attached to the boards.
2. 1/4 drywall under insulation attached to existing beams ( if the bottoms of the beams are level). If beams are not level, it is easy to attach alternatives to wood boards. You do not need the same count of the beams, just enough to attach 8′ drywall sheets.
You could even attach 2X4 on the seams 90 degrees to existing beams under the drywall if you like “beamed” look. Paint everything.

The money lost on heating and cooling in existing situation more then justify an expense for this job. Any good handyman would be able to do this in less then a week. The longest would be to wait when drywall seams skim coating dries. The dirtiest will be sanding , you will have to cover your furniture.

lucie | 4 years and 8 months ago

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Depending on the answers I would do 2 layers.
1. Rigid insulation cut to fit tight between existing narrow beams attached to the boards.
2. 1/4 drywall under insulation attached to existing beams ( if the bottoms of the beams are level). If beams are not level, it is easy to attach alternatives to wood boards. You do not need the same count of the beams, just enough to attach 8′ drywall sheets.
You could even attach 2X4 on the seams 90 degrees to existing beams under the drywall if you like “beamed” look. Paint everything.

The money lost on heating and cooling in existing situation more then justify an expense for this job. Any good handyman would be able to do this in less then a week. The longest would be to wait when drywall seams skim coating dries. The dirtiest will be sanding , you will have to cover your furniture.

cate | 4 years and 8 months ago

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Whatever you do, please be cautious about insulating the roof. I know someone who did this and has major structural problems with the roof and rear gutter now that are going to cost tens of thousands to fix. A roofer said to me once that adding insulation on the roof is never a good idea. Maybe the issue is that insulation was added on top of an already existing roof layer.