Suing the developer due to smell and other issues
Don’t be mad but it sounds like you did not do your due diligence and have the property fully inspected so getting them to make the fix may cost you in time and legal fees if it is not clearly outlined in the contract for sale. I have a Brownstone and there are 6 “party wall” courses of bricks that separate our house from the one next door but when we purchased the house we repointed the entire party wall on our side. That is not to say we haven’t smelled a thing or two (one time the top tenant next door had a fire and we were the ones to call the authorities). We also installed spray foam insulation and a vapor barrier before re-installing sheetrock and that has made the difference. I do hope you find a solution but wood frame houses are tough.
BKALLDAY
in General Discussion 5 years and 9 months ago
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Guest User | 5 years and 9 months ago
We purchased a gut-renovated wood frame townhouse in Crown Heights in November. Unfortunately we have two major problems ostensively related to the neighbor’s townhouse immediately to our left. The neighbors smoke cigarettes and marijuana indoors and the smell travels through the walls (?), vents and windows (her house is falling apart and she’s using plastic to cover a few of her windows). In addition, various food and toilet smell travels through the vents and stink up our house. In the evenings the smoke can be so bad that you would think that someone had just smoked inside our home. When we did the walk throughs prior to the purchase, we had smelled a faint smell of marijuana but we had been told that it was probably “the contractors smoking while working”, so much to our regret now, we didn’t investigate further (I know, dumb mistake).
As the smell has been there since we moved in, I’m confident the developer was aware of this issue but did not disclose it to us.
The second issue is that our basement flooded in December due to rain. The developer believes its be cause our neighbor (the same one) doesn’t have a proper system to take the rain water out away from her property and it caused my basement to flood. Through a slip by one of his contractors, we found out that this is likely related to an “issue known since the beginning of the project”.
I’m trying to address both of these issues with the developer who sold us the property but he’s being very slow and reactive. Although he’s telling us he’ll help us out, he’s not really taking initiative to proactively fix these issues. I constantly need to harass him to respond and they have yet to come up with sound actions to address the serious issue of smells.
I’m considering taking legal action against him as I believe he should have disclosed these issues to us prior to the purchase. I feel like I poured my life savings into a giant ashtray.
First, do you guys know what’s the most practical way I can go about bringing legal action against him? Second, has anyone ever heard of smells traveling between townhouses? It seems like somehow our HVAC system must be connected with their property but it has been extremely difficult to research any such occurrence online and even calling some HVAC pros hasn’t yielded any insights. They are even reluctant to come check it out.
I would appreciate any advice.
Note: I’m trying to be cordial with the neighbor and get her to assist me by fixing her property or not smoking in the house but I don’t have much leverage there.
stevecym | 5 years and 9 months ago
this same issue was posted on here some months back and others replied. take a look back about 2 or 3 mos.
Guest User | 5 years and 9 months ago
Hmm… I browsed through the old posts and couldn’t really find something that’s similar enough to be of help.
cate | 5 years and 9 months ago
Sounds like you may have a variety of odor problems. Are they literally smoking something every minute of the day 24/7? Is that possible? In every room? Smoke does travel through party walls. It would be very unusual if you share HVAC , vents or airshafts, but if you do it would also be possible to factually ascertain. Be aware that sewage and mold can cause unusual strange smells. We had an unusual combination drain/fresh air vent under our stoop that created terrible smells until a licensed plumber put in a proper fresh air vent. We also discovered that a drop of water on a moldy wood floor in one of our bathrooms could produce the most alarming strange odors! (Mushrooms, boiling potatoes, sewage, garbage….)
eman134 | 5 years and 9 months ago
the develojwr was probably an LLC that has since dissolved…forget about getting any money out of that. Instead try to figure out how to solve the problem…if you have exposesd brick walls you will need to sheetrock them and pump in foam to every crack…if you have sheet rock tear it out foam it up and resheetrock. This is standard for flips
Guest User | 5 years and 9 months ago
@cate thanks for the insight. The smell is not 24/7, the smoke is mostly at night when the neighbors are home. However the more recent public bathroom disinfectant smell emanating on the first floor seems to be pretty constant. I will definitely look into the mold and sewage situation for that. re: the smoke, It makes no sense to me that the smoke could travel through the walls to such a great degree. Based on inspection, the insulation was done properly behind the walls. I would understand if this was a condo or apartment building but being a townhome this blows my mind and is baffling
eman134 | 5 years and 9 months ago
brick is porous and the divisions between townhouses was done with low grade infill…later outlets were cut into the walls creating gaps that odors can pass through. You are not the first person on the forum to complain about this condition…you need sealed foam not batting to stop the smell from coming through And by the way this is solely your problem. You cannot expect your neighbors to change their life to accommodate you
Guest User | 5 years and 9 months ago
@eman134 – Thanks for your feedback. I’m not too interested in getting money from the developer. I just want to get him to help me investigate and fix the problem. It’s a wood frame house and there is no exposed brick but I’m worried that the foam wasn’t applied properly. Do you know whether there is a way to figure out where the issue is without having to tear down the entire wall?
Agreed on the neighbor. This is on me to fix…
angelique.m.west | 5 years and 9 months ago
A few thoughts:
–Forget litigation. You will get nowhere. If you sue they will drag it out and it will only end up costing you a ton in legal fees. I would, however, talk to a good real estate lawyer who handles these kinds of issues and see if he can intervene on your behalf. A strong letter from a lawyer to the developer outlining the issues and proposing a solution is the way to go, which leads to my next point.
–I would get several estimates as to what it would take to remediate the problems and have the lawyer include them and make a proposal : They may half of it, or whatever. You must tell them what you want and be specific. This will start a process.
–Forget having the developer fix these issues. Why would you want these folks who did a bad job and cut corners or worse to come back in? If they agreed, which I doubt they will, you are going to have to trust them to do a good, thorough job. It’s more likely they will do just what’s necessary — or worse. Do not let them back in except of they express an interest in seeing what the problems are.
–Bottom line: Fi ghting a developer is very difficult. I would come up with a strategy that opens a negotiation and I think the best thing is to get them to cut a check. This may be the easiest solution in that it makes the problem go away from them. Yes, this means you may have to share the cost. No, that’s not fair.
–If none of this works that’s where you strategize with your lawyer.
–I may have a good contact for a lawyer. PM me.
Guest User | 5 years and 9 months ago
@mat315 – Thank you so much. I too think that’s the way to go and I will definitely PM you.
Who do I need to contact to get estimates? HVAC professional? Someone else? Combination of bunch of folks? I know my questions are basic but I just don’t know who to turn to.
Thanks a million
cate | 5 years and 9 months ago
Party walls aren’t typically insulated. Also even in a wood frame house the party wall is typically made of (mostly) brick for fire reasons. Of course this varies depending on the age of the row.
hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago
The person you need for this job is either a smaller gc, or a carpenter, maybe a mason if the walls were brick infilled. However you’ll be in much better shape if you can find out what the problem is and then hire someone to fix it. You don’t want to pay a contractor to keep trying stuff that doesn’t work. Get some folks in there and see what they suggest. I don’t see resolving this issue without taking down some walls. A tyvek barrier or something might help stop air from coming in, but I don’t think you can figure this out without a careful examination of what is happening, and it could be that there’s a larger issue than just smells coming through. It’s possible you will need to redo the entire wall, but let’s hope not. A fire code type company might be able to help. If marijuana smoke can make it through, what would happen in a fire? But I’d be worried they’ll just freak out when they see what you’ve got there.
eman134 | 5 years and 9 months ago
if you can smell your neighbor then without question there is air leakage between buildings…the only way to resolve it will be to tear out the sheetrock ,including all the way up to the beams and subfloor, reframe the walls, fill the entire space between you and your neighbor with at least an inch of spay foam, maybe a vapor barrier as well…the problem with that strategy is that you will lose an inch- inch and 5/8 of wall, meaning staircases will lose space if they are on that side of the building. Stick frame houses are often framed out with rough timber and loose brick and mortar infill that allows endless passage of odor and sound between buildings
Townie | 5 years and 9 months ago
You mentioned HVAC. Do you have forced air? Maybe you have negative pressure so that you’re sucking the air out of your neighbors house. Many wood framed houses that share a party wall actually have open shared attic spaces under the roof. You might get an insulation guy who does energy audits to check for air infiltration. Also check your fresh air intake.
resident2 | 5 years and 9 months ago
Look at the contract you signed to buy the house: I am sure somewhere in it, it clearly states something to the effect of: Buyer has had the property inspected and are taking the house As-Is… Houses do not come with warranties, it is not new construction etc. So forget about suing the seller.
I would have been alarmed when I heard the seller making an excuse about the smell being his own workers smoking pot on the job!
So just focus on sealing & insulating your walls from your neighbor & working out what the drainage problem is in your basement. It is one of two problems usually. A.) Their sewer is clogged /slow so gets backed up & floods their basement that them seeps into yours or their back leader is not correct right into their sewer. If it is coming from anywhere other than the party wall, then look to see that the water drains away from the house on the outside, all concrete etc is pitched away from the house.
bklynteacher | 5 years and 9 months ago
I have a similar neighbor, frequent pot-smokers, but smell has fortunately never been a problem except in the summer, when we both have our windows open. Brick rowhouse.
But I also had the problem of regular flooding in my cellar. I thought it was rain or groundwater until I ascertained that the water always seeped from the same spot toward the front of the house, along the wall shared with the same neighbor, above the poured-cement floor. Then I called DEP to inspect for a leak in my waste pipe. They ran dye down a sink in my house, and then they went next door and did the same. There was the dye in my cellar a minute later. Yuck. They got a violation and were required to replace their waste pipe, but that requirement had little or no urgency. Neighbor didn’t have the money for that huge job. Fortunately, he and I had a decent relationship from the start, and I’d even cleared the dye test with him before I called DEP (though I think DEP could have demanded entry; they care about waste leakage), so I just encouraged him to replace the pipe when he could, whic h he did about two years later. I just used a couple QuickDam flood barriers to contain the occasional inflow until then. And he was grateful for my patience. But that sort of relationship and patience may be elusive with your neighbor.
Guest User | 5 years and 9 months ago
Sounds like the problems I dealt with! I bought a gut renovated brownstone in Bed Stuy several years ago and had to deal with marijuana smells seeping through the walls as well as flooding into the finished basement. The basement issue was resolved by installing sump pumps. Now it is totally dry. Sometimes it came from the neighbors who clogged their pipes with paper toweling. Other times it just came from heavy rains when the water table rose. I think that is fairly common in the NY area due to the nature of the soil. Definitely get a sump pump.
The smoke issue I just had to wait out until they moved, which happened about three years after I moved in. I did have an exposed brick wall and I made sure to caulk any openings in the mortar but it was not enough. Their house was also falling part. Never sunk a nickel into maintainIng the home although the sons all drove imported cars. They had gang members in the family (one just got sent to prison for ten years), they had a homicide in the entryway before I moved in. They had arguments everyday which I could hear through t he walls. They buried two of their pit bulls in the backyard. Constant stream of people hanging all day out front. Water leaked through their roof all the way down four floors and they never fixed the damage. Broken windows. Mold and dog feces everywhere. They were impossible to talk with about anything so I basically avoided them. What kept me sane was knowing that they would soon be gone, although it took two years to get them out. Half the house was owned by their relatives who sold their share to a developer. The developer took them to court to get them out. I could not believe the condition of the home when I went inside after they moved. I don’t know how they breathed the foul air in that house. Luckily I now have two renovated townhouses on both sides of me. Hang in there. They probably won’t last.
Guest User | 5 years and 9 months ago
Sounds like the problems I dealt with! I bought a gut renovated brownstone in Bed Stuy several years ago and had to deal with marijuana smells seeping through the walls as well as flooding into the finished basement. The basement issue was resolved by installing sump pumps. Now it is totally dry. Sometimes it came from the neighbors who clogged their pipes with paper toweling. Other times it just came from heavy rains when the water table rose. I think that is fairly common in the NY area due to the nature of the soil. Definitely get a sump pump.
The smoke issue I just had to wait out until they moved, which happened about three years after I moved in. I did have an exposed brick wall and I made sure to caulk any openings in the mortar but it was not enough. Their house was also falling part. Never sunk a nickel into maintainIng the home although the sons all drove imported cars. They had gang members in the family (one just got sent to prison for ten years), they had a homicide in the entryway before I moved in. They had arguments everyday which I could hear through t he walls. They buried two of their pit bulls in the backyard. Constant stream of people hanging all day out front. Water leaked through their roof all the way down four floors and they never fixed the damage. Broken windows. Mold and dog feces everywhere. They were impossible to talk with about anything so I basically avoided them. What kept me sane was knowing that they would soon be gone, although it took two years to get them out. Half the house was owned by their relatives who sold their share to a developer. The developer took them to court to get them out. I could not believe the condition of the home when I went inside after they moved. I don’t know how they breathed the foul air in that house. Luckily I now have two renovated townhouses on both sides of me. Hang in there. They probably won’t last.
brucef | 5 years and 9 months ago
Listen to Eman134, he is correct. (I have 50 years experience w/old houses)