Slow leak in new gas piping

“Little bit pregnant” might now be added to my lexicon

lkrshacmzcy

in General Discussion 5 years and 9 months ago

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krobertson

in General Discussion 5 years and 10 months ago

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I have all new gas piping installed on a multi-family. Piping for two meters are showing a slow gas leak; when pumped to 4psi pressure it drops to about 3.4 psi after 18 hours and continues to lose pressure thereafter. The piping was self-certified and appears to just barely pass DOB inspection standards of holding 4 psi for either 15 or 20 min (I forget which); you can notice a needle’s width drop in pressure after about 30 min on a 5 psi gauge.

GC has confirmed the leak is in the piping by swapping out the test gauge and closing shutoff valves at the end appliance. Walls have been closed and the GC doesn’t want to find/fix the leaking, saying everything is ok since it passes DOB standards plus ConEd will retest the pressure when they come to install the new meters.

How hard should I be pressing the GC to fix the leak? I’m concerned of health issues, the leak becoming worse down the line, and maybe failing another/different pressure test years in the future when I need to replace the gas boiler or hot water heater.

Will ConEd pressure test the entire system all th e way through to the end appliance when they install the new meters? If ConEd finds when installing the meters, will I end up with a bigger headache of needing new permits etc. now that the DOB permits for the entire job is being marked as completed?

GreenThinker | 5 years and 10 months ago

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Thing is, the gas is going to be coming in at like 0.5 psi, so it’s possible it’s not going to leak. But anyway, I’d start with the connections where the pipe is exposed, could be a easy fix where something just needs to be turned another quarter. Did they use tape or liquid dope? You can check the exposed connections by spraying a mixture of soap and water on the fitting.

krobertson

in General Discussion 5 years and 10 months ago

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They used liquid dope. Unfortunately the GC check all the exposed pipe areas with soap + water solution and still couldn’t find the leak. Good chance its a connection somewhere in the walls. Pretty sure it’ll still leak even at 0.5 psi since the pressure shows 0 psi after a week or so. Any idea if a gas detector can find leaks in pipes behind walls?

stickerhappy | 5 years and 10 months ago

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Did they check the valves themselves? We had an issue similar to this and one plumber suggested that it could actually be that a valve was leaky where it connected to a stove or another gas appliance.
Or did they remove all valves and cap the pipe before testing?

eman134 | 5 years and 10 months ago

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piping solutions is the company that will install the meters for con ed …they will test the entire line with a manometer and if it fails , either refuse to install a meter, or install the meter and lock it out until the line is refiled and repaired… this should lay squarely on whoever certified the installation

jrkeat | 5 years and 10 months ago

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A good electronic natural gas leak detector with 5ppm sensitivity like the Imperial LD910 is a big improvement over bubbles–you can quickly test a bunch of joints, as well as ones behind walls by drilling a holes. You have to get the probe pretty close the joint to detect the leak.

I’m not sure if GCs ever use them, but a helium leak detector will find ANY leak that you can get physical access to. You would would shut off the system to the outside and connect the detector to the appliance side. The detector will pull a vacuum on the system. You can then go around an spray helium on each of the joints, valves, etc. Even the very smallest hole will suck in enough helium to set of the detector. The are not super expensive (a $2-4,000 on Ebay) but I’ve never seen one used for house piping.

lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 10 months ago

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I cannot stress how alarming this post is. From the inaccurate numbers for the testing procedure to self-inspections that are now no longer allowed, this is a very dangerous post.
I use the word dangerous because you are admitting to the knowledge of an active Gas Leak and have not called Emergency Services; if anything were to happen, both you and the GC would be responsible for not doing so.
Regardless of aything; I would never let this fly with the GC. I would call the Utility company myself. If they shut it down, the GC is responsible for the repair and lost time (barring your contract).

Guest User | 5 years and 10 months ago

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Agree with Chris Petri – push the GC to fix the leak. of course they don’t want to reopen the walls, but the alternative is having gas leaking into the walls of your building.

Guest User | 5 years and 10 months ago

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Agree with Chris Petri – push the GC to fix the leak. of course they don’t want to reopen the walls, but the alternative is having gas leaking into the walls of your building.

krobertson

in General Discussion 5 years and 10 months ago

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Thanks all for the info, very helpful. Based on everything I’ve seen looks like I’ll have to push my GC to fix the issue. @Chis Petri, appreciate the feedback and concern but just to clear up a few unwarranted assumptions you had: the work was done with permits and self-certified last year when self certifications were still allowed. As I mentioned it’ll pass DoB inspections even if its just barely, meaning the work does technically meet code. There’s no active gas leak since gas service yet, and permits are still open but GC wants to go close the permits hence the reason I had for posting this question.

krobertson

in General Discussion 5 years and 10 months ago

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Meant to say there’s no gas service yet.

Master Plvmber | 5 years and 10 months ago

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I’ve been in the plumbing business in NYC for 37 years now. Bar none, the worst contractor stores I ever hear are from posts on this forum. I don’t know what it is.
Please listen to Chris Petri.

lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 10 months ago

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If the Gas is off, it is not a horrible situation; sorry for the assumption. That being said, the numbers you provided are all still wrong which is worrisome; if the pressure even drops a .01 the inspection is failed.
Obivously this is a loaded topic with a lot of variables and this could go back and forth forever so I will bow out, but if you want to speak over the phone I would be more than happy to; let me know!

lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 10 months ago

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    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209518)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
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  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

If the Gas is off, it is not a horrible situation; sorry for the assumption. That being said, the numbers you provided are all still wrong which is worrisome; if the pressure even drops a .01 the inspection is failed.
Obivously this is a loaded topic with a lot of variables and this could go back and forth forever so I will bow out, but if you want to speak over the phone I would be more than happy to; let me know!

ellenlourie | 5 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5210 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5204 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209451"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "ellenlourie"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BW7BCPC4MhhU4md6aHcLH/64c1GhM1/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "ellenlourie"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "ellen.lourie@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-06-29 12:47:36"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "ellenlourie"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209451)
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    ["bbp_participant"]=>
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  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
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  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
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  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
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}

Gas test is 3 psi for 30 minutes. The pressure gage needle must not move at all. Gas cannot be self certified. Only physical inspection. There no such thing as barely pass gas test. It is like being a little bit pregnant.

lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 9 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5213 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4998 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209518"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bqvt72Mt4bRnZYx4l2.8v65b1dA59S/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "artjimenez78@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-07-02 16:32:25"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "lkrshacmzcy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209518)
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  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
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  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
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  }
  ["filter"]=>
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  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

“Little bit pregnant” might now be added to my lexicon