Roofer recommendation & solar

Closing on a 2 unit double duplex we plan on holding as an investment property. The property needs a new roof and I have gathered estimates from Royal, Premiere and SAS. I know Royal has a good reputation but are substantially higher than the other two. Has anyone had any experience with SAS? They have excellent reviews online. I didn’t intend on adding solar but it got me thinking. Would you?

stuyheights

in General Discussion 5 years and 11 months ago

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greenworks | 5 years and 10 months ago

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To all considering solar – please just get an estimate personalized to your situation instead of market based averages or hypotheticals – it may or may not make sense for you!

jjq | 5 years and 10 months ago

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Yeah. I guess all the links I provided in the analysis above are not as good as all the links you provided.

greenworks | 5 years and 10 months ago

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FWIW, You provided the hypothetical numbers regarding recurring costs, I’m simply responding to them, with our actual. There’s no reason for me to even post on this thread otherwise. I don’t post just to read myself write (generally).

These are issues you very specifically raised, why shouldn’t I address them?

I’m simply addressing specific issues you raised from real world experience, from someone who has had actual experience as opposed to hypotheticals/estimates in the hopes that others considering solar won’t be misguided, at least to ongoing costs. I can’t speak to install costs now since incentives have changed.

Like I keep saying to those considering solar – you may have a very different cost scenario than we did. It may or may not make sense for you, especially with current incentives. Please do your own math!

jjq | 5 years and 10 months ago

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Heres a link to 63 pages of DOB solar installations from ONE registered PE. Thats over 2000 installations. A quick study of the RECENT Installations shows how varied the installation costs are– Some $20K, some $30K, some $40K and over– Ive looked at 6 other PE filings (hundreds of installations) from the same database because Im looking for market-based averages to compare to individual experiences.

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobsByLicenseNumberServlet?previous.x=38&previous.y=1&allcount=0281&alljappproftitle=PE&alljapplicnumber=063124&alljobtype=A2&passdocnumber=&allinquirytype=BXS1LI08&requestid=15

jjq | 5 years and 10 months ago

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Im not trying to persuade anyone one way or another. Im just looking for REAL WORLD numbers– 1) Actual Solar Hours realized in NYC per season, 2) Actual Installation Costs with Coned, Fed, State and City Rebates, 3) Actual 2019 rate of Net metering buy-back. Obviously solar works for you. GREAT. How about providing the real world numbers.

greenworks | 5 years and 10 months ago

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I just saw that you consulted with an architect engineer and solar panel installer to get your numbers – of course they are going to be SKY HIGH compared to a one stop shop.

Yes there are companies that offer one stop shopping: design, engineering, install, permit handling., WARRANTIED work, all for a MUCH LOWER price than the torturous more expensive process you describe. We used Brooklyn Solar Works and everything was included for a very very nice price.

We haven’t paid a cent out of pocket since install.

It’s comparing apples and oranges.

For everyone reading this thread, please don’t be scared off of solar – reach out to a one stop shop to do your own analysis and NOT three different professions individually. Of course it won’t make sense if you do the latter.

greenworks | 5 years and 10 months ago

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Oh and I forgot that all of our equipment is warrantied including panels. at no additional cost. We did have an issue with our inverter that was resolved quickly and at no charge.

If you’re still interested in solar at the least, I’d suggest reaching out to Brooklyn Solar Works for numbers. They made solar install as easy as ordering pizza and all of their parts are warrantied.

greenworks | 5 years and 10 months ago

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Just to reiterate, we have realized none of those costs you list above regarding replacement insurance etc in the 4 years we’ve had solar. So those are our figures.

workisfun | 5 years and 10 months ago

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I want to consider solar in the next year or two. This thread is a good example of the kind of thread worth keeping open and available for a while.

jjq | 5 years and 10 months ago

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SOLAR SUPPLEMENT

Thanks for engaging in this. You will notice I moved the thread to its own topic at the root of the board, just to attract new comments.

My posted analysis is three years old, so some of the figures may have changed. I tried to document what I could three years ago, and below are current links I found to areas where I had none in the previous study.

What Im currently trying to determine— What has changed?

Here is a link to Solar Panel maintenance:

https://www.fixr.com/costs/solar-panel-maintenance
— Im over 60, Im not going up to the roof to clean anything
—Basically $150 Visit Plus $10-15 panel, 2X year
— CHECK. Seems about right in my analysis
— This cost, of course is optional, but I think reasonable for a home owner to include.

Heres a link on Replacement/Liability Cost Insurance:

https://robfreeman.com/cost-insure-solar-panels/

3 years ago my guy at Chubb offered a Supplementary $540/year plan on $27K equip and install
— Plan included ALL PARTS and INSTALLATION on ANY repair, damage or replacement
— Maybe a bit pricey at $45 month, but thats for $27K equip
— CHECK. On $20K equipment we are talking about $35/month (assuming same deal is available)
— This cost, of course is optional, but I think reasonable for a home owner to include.

On Increased Tax Base, liability Insurance, etc:

https://solarmetric.com/learn/new-york-solar-energy-incentives/

— I do see that NY has increased the Tax Abatement to 15 years
— And my CURRENT Insurer (Brownstone Group) has wrapped the Liability charge into my existing plan
— OMIT. Id agree, No increased liability insurance.

One other comment on my previous analysis.

Three years ago I got estimates from THREE professional services— Architect, Electrician, Solar Panels.

Today, there are lots of firms which I assume will do it all, decreasing the total INSTALL COST.

I also here that the DOB is much more “user friendly” to residential solar, which I assume reduces what was a pricy Architects fee.

I WANT TO BELIEVE

What I keep hearing from people who have installed systems is that they are saving “thousands of dollars year” on electric costs.

I keep asking, “PLEASE show me the figures.”

No one ever does.

Im not questioning anyones unique experience, Id just like to see a detailed breakdown for NYC residential solar as compared to the 11¢ kWh Im spending now.

resident2 | 5 years and 10 months ago

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Solar Panels are also a hedge against future rate increases.

Putnamdenizen | 5 years and 10 months ago

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jjq – a quick glance at your figures show me that you include somethings in your calculations which I am not paying and are quite significant – replacement insurance (540/year), maintenance (500/year), increased liability insurance (300/year). Those are a significant part of what you claim are an additional $305/month in costs. It really makes me wonder about that accuracy of your numbers. Obviously a clear eyed look at the numbers is useful, but I don’t think you are quite there.

jjq | 5 years and 10 months ago

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I’m just say’in $20k worth of equipment just doesn’t drop out of the sky. It needs to be paid for— even if out of savings. The straight on cost of dividing $20k/240 months (life of equipment) is $85/month. Not to mention the “invested potential”— maybe another $20/month at a VERY reasonable 2% rate. Maybe this is a sophisticated way to look at it—considering opportunity cost— but as I do MY numbers (again, not trolling here) … in my situation I’d rather pay 11 cents a kWh and have no additional equipment costs or worries.

As I mentioned, I don’t see many solar installs here in Bay Ridge. Basically 3 that I know of in 30 square blocks of Brownstones (like mine) … I gotta believe it’s simply because it’s not economically viable.

But again, you’re mileage may vary.

greenworks | 5 years and 10 months ago

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Not trolling, these things need to be discussed.

2015 or current, as both resident and I have mentioned, in 90 percent of cases, financing or leasing solar is a losers game. I skimmed your numbers and noticed you included financing. Nope, no way no how will financing/leasing solar make financial sense for most people. Pay cash. We scrimped and saved to do so bc financing made ZERO sense.

Also after skimming your numbers, we didn’t realize many of the costs over time you assume such as replacement, etc.

We did have one neighbor who installed where he leased I think and it made sense under the terms he got. He has electric heating in a giant home and his heating bills were north of 700 bucks a month prior to solar. But in most cases, financing leasing is automatic no go.

jjq | 5 years and 10 months ago

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I’m not trying to be a troll here.

I did my calculations provided above about three years ago. I’m genuinely interested in the CURRENT state and costs of solar vs “Time of Use” billing in NYC (less than 11 cents kWh). I just can’t see how it works for a residential installation. with typical use of 16-20kW/day.

resident2 | 5 years and 10 months ago

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The $4-5,000 a year that I am saving is from NOT paying the huge bills to PSEG for electricity & the savings on my National Grid bills in winter for heat.
Very simple; no convoluted spread sheets.
I could probably save more by buying an electric run around car and more electrical appliances, like lawn mowers etc, because the Grid still gets a lot of my surplus.
Leasing is a rip off and gets complicated if you want to sell: read the fine print. And financing it also cuts into your expenses & ties up credit. But if you have savings accounts paying you almost nothing in interest, that you then get taxed on! My “free” electricity is not even taxed! Tax free income.

greenworks | 5 years and 11 months ago

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It may be a totally different scenario now but we paid cash for our solar in around 2015 here in Brooklyn and our numbers and experience are much closer to resident2s. I’m assuming the giant numbers you’re throwing around are bc you live in a giant house then, didn’t have the patience to wade thru your numbers lol.

We ran similar numbers and it was a no brainer paying cash for us. . Loans and leases made no sense financially.

And if I look around my nabe about 20 percent have solar and I’m not even in a “progressive” area.

Again it may make no sense if you do it now or take a long term loan or lease but it’s been all kinds of awesome for us.

jjq | 5 years and 11 months ago

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Yes. Your instal costs of $19K is about 1/2 of what it would cost here in the city. (See my post item “Monthly Dollar Cost of Solar” above which includes a link to a DOB cost filing for a typical Solar System in Bay Ridge.) I’ve looked at about a dozen NYC filings– and they all come in at $40-50K before rebates.

Im NOT questioning it– But Id like to see how you figure you are saving $4-5K/year…??

Here in Brooklyn a 5 kW Solar system working for FOUR solar hours a day produces aprox 20 KWh’s of electric per day– Thats about $4.00-5.00/day electricity depending on which ConEd plan you are on.

resident2 | 5 years and 11 months ago

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I put Solar Panels on a Beach House in Nassau County. PSEG do not make a big issue of it & no problem getting permits quickly & easily. I paid cash; ($19,000) better return than leaving it in a mutual fund etc. I run A/C all summer 24 hours a day & augment my heating during day light hours all winter. Costs me a total of $135.00 a year in “electric charges” , basically the costs to be hooked into the grid. Estimated savings approx $4-5,000 a year!
NYC buildings department & Con Ed in the City drive up costs in the City.