Proposed law requiring sprinklers in brownstones

@soslope: i hope you get some likes for your post as at the base of it all you are correct. but someone else referred to this proposed law as government “overreach” and as a small business owner, all i keep seeing is legislation that costs us more without any give back and usually the legislation arises because someone who has limited resources did something they shouldn’t and they make the rest of us pay. i can see the self closing doors and that makes good sense. but a sprinkler system? do small landlords really have this money? or buildings with rent controlled units in them. will the legislation allow them to pass some of this along to the tenants? there is nothing wrong with letting people who might leave doors open pay for what they might do wrong just like business owners and homeowners have to pay for what they might do wrong. spread the responsibility a little.

stevecym

in General Discussion 4 years and 7 months ago

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Guest User | 4 years and 7 months ago

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If this proposal did become law, I predict that tons of 3 family owners would decide to convert their buildings to 2 families, resulting in an overall reduction of available units. Owners of 3 families aren’t professional landlords, and renting out that one extra unit is getting less and less worth it already.

Wouldn’t this proposal also affect lots of co-op owners? It should be better publicized if it really has a chance of going through so that those affected can weigh in, and again, my opinion is that the city should be kicking in money in that case. That won’t happen because NYC is hurting financially, but a lot of owners are hurting financially too. Tone deaf to even propose it now without significant financial support to allow owners to make such expensive alterations.

MDR | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Section BC310 covers all types of residential buildings. The proposed law doesn’t say R-1 is excluded so presumably that would mean any residential building over 40′ would be subject to the law, perhaps even a one-family Queen Anne style home in Ditmas with a tower over 40′ tall. It would make much better sense to base the law on the number of floors, not building height.

greenworks | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Dec 2 hearing is what organization? I’m no expert on council matters but every time I’ve looked into official city council matters, those hearings have been listed on legistar/the official city council web site.

So far, I still see no official next action outside of the intro of the bill/referral to committee in Oct 2018.

This isn’t to be antagonistic, I’m just confused-can someone point me to an active bill?

phindic | 4 years and 7 months ago

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@MDR, R-1 does not include buildings with less than three dwellings.

catboot | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Here is the info for December 2: https://legistar.council.nyc.gov/MeetingDetail.aspx?ID=815861&GUID=ACF6AE49-5E92-4106-8C35-8B29DE518F63&Options=&Search=

greenworks | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Thanks!

nyc_sport | 4 years and 7 months ago

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The reference to this having anything whatsoever to do with Trump or Trump Tower is just NYC politics as usual seeking cover for political grandstanding under the red toupee of the Donald. What does a fire on the 50th floor of a high rise have to do with this question?

https://www.amny.com/news/900-buildings-still-not-in-compliance-with-sprinkler-laws/

https://qns.com/2019/11/smoke-detectors-and-even-fire-alarms-are-not-enough-queens-councilmans-bill-would-require-sprinklers-for-residential-buildings/

catboot | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Exactly. But here we are, once again, having to bend at the whims of city council’s bone-headed and poorly written legislation. Cornegy is using the fire as justification for this when asked why he is co-sponsoring the bill. He did not answer when asked, specifically, how a high rise would correlate to a town house.

brokelyn | 4 years and 7 months ago

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I asked a neighbor who is active in the Brownstoners of Bed-Stuy if they were aware of the proposed sprinkler law, but I haven’t heard back. If you (or anyone following this thread) have a connection with the Brownstoners, could you ask them about it? I emailed Alliance for a Human-Scale City to make them aware of it and will follow up by phone. I also emailed Community Board 3 in Brooklyn. Again, it would be great if anyone who is concerned about this can contact their councilpeople, the sponsors of the bill, their community board, and any other organizations that might be willing to speak up. You can also sign up to testify at the Zoom hearing on Dec. 2 at 1 PM (must sign up by Dec. 1 at 1 pm). Alternatively you can submit written testimony up to 72 hours after the hearing using the same link: https://council.nyc.gov/testify/

shahnandersen

in General Discussion 4 years and 7 months ago

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Here is a link to a change.org petition site with backup info started by a Bed-Stuy block association. Lots of useful information:

https://www.change.org/p/bill-sponsor-barry-s-grodenchik-do-you-own-a-3-story-building-in-nyc-if-so-intro-1146b-will-affect-you?fbclid=IwAR1-PBRAW6YpNrtdVbV0Mz92i0DvJapoClgZdWehTK0rtkffUoplKJ_Huzw

cate | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Here is our story on this issue: https://www.brownstoner.com/real-estate-market/automatic-sprinklers-nyc-amendment-residential-buildings-40-feet-tall-fire-safety-intro-1146b/ Here is the Real Deal’s story on this issue — from the perspective of apartment building owners rather than residents of townhouses: https://therealdeal.com/2020/12/01/absolute-craziness-critics-slam-bill-requiring-sprinklers-in-every-apartment/

brokelyn | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Thanks for the link, great coverage! It will be interesting to see what happens at the hearing today – hopefully the bill will be drastically rewritten so that homeowners (and co-op and condo owners) will be protected.

hkapstein | 4 years and 7 months ago

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I am seeing on twitter that the bill will not be voted on, but will be modified, presumably to limit the impact on homeowners. This sounds good, but anyone here better detail from the hearing?

cate | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Urbandad, I heard from a hearing attendee that it was said that an estimated 85,000 buildings will be impacted, and hundreds of thousands of people will be displaced. Patch also has more details of the meeting, including that a similar rule passed years ago for office buildings has largely failed. https://patch.com/new-york/bed-stuy/new-sprinkler-law-catastrophic-brownstones-brooklynites-say

hkapstein | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Thanks Cate. Do you know anything about the proposed amendment?

peaceout | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Here is the REBNY (Real Estate Board of NY) petition goes directly to your councilperson which details the proposed $10,000 a day fine if the homeowner is out of compliance among the endless documentation required.https://www.votervoice.net/REBNY/campaigns/78372/respond?j=688379&sfmc_sub=97796637&l=4622_HTML&u=14937326&mid=100004597&jb=11

brokelyn | 4 years and 7 months ago

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I attended the hearing, and it’s not clear what the next steps will be, but at the end, the bill’s sponsor, Councilmember Grodenchik, acknowledged that he could not see it going forward in its current form. 24 people and organizations spoke out against it (including homeowners in Bed-Stuy and small landlords around the city) and it seems from DOB testimony that the DOB doesn’t have the resources to enforce it. One suggested change was that when someone files a permit for a kitchen renovation, they would be required to install sprinklers in the kitchen using the domestic water supply. But it wasn’t clear if the bill would be tossed out or rewritten in that direction. I think we can all breathe easy now, but let’s stay tuned and see what develops.

cate | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Menchaca withdraws his support. Says bill is unworkable as written. https://twitter.com/NYCCouncil38/status/1334257866933493762

hkapstein | 4 years and 7 months ago

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So what does that generally mean? What is the process for revising the bill?