Professional Advice on Legality of “English Basement”?
A home is one of the largest investments you can make in your life. Dealing with the DOB can be one of the most ambigious situations of your life (coming from someone who talks to them everyday).
Make the right decision on a large investment and contact an Expeditor Service. For a very small fee, they will be able to get you an answer on this without making assumptions or guesses on the DOB!
lkrshacmzcy
in General Discussion 5 years and 9 months ago
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9 replies
mstamib
in General Discussion 5 years and 9 months ago
Hi everyone-We have an offer out on a 3-story 2-family home. The house is currently configured as an owner’s duplex over a garden-level 1-bedroom English basement rental that is partially below grade with 7’’6 ceilings. (Mechanicals are on the garden level with boiler in a separate room behind a fire-safe door.) Previously, it was being used as a 3-family with a unit on each floor, but the current owners converted the upper floors back into a duplex and left the garden level as a rental, which is how we’d want to keep it. Assuming our offer is accepted, prior to going into contract, we would like to get comfortable that the garden unit is a legal basement (not a cellar) and a legal apartment. The DOB records and I-card are clear that the house is a 2-family, but there is no COO, and the I-card indicates that it was used (illegally I guess) as a 3-family going back at least to the 1980s, and there is nothing to indicate what the original 2-family configuration was..The I-card also says that the lowest level is a basement and includes some hand-drawn plans that show that it is at least 50% above grade, both of give me some comfort, but I’d still like more certainty. Anyone have any thoughts based on your knowledge and experience? Also, can anyone advise as to what type of professional can evaluate this for us if our offer is accepted? Architect? Inspector? Surveyor? An experienced contractor? Thank you!
hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago
Does the I-card say it’s a 2-family or a 3-famiy? It sounds like this may have changed over time, but it’s not clear from your post. What do the plans you have indicate, are there 3 kitchens or two? And where are they located, and what year are they from? There’s some stuff to be sorted out, but if the basement isn’t 50% above grade, that would be a big problem in my view. A surveyor can resolve that. If it’s above the threshold, and the surveyor guarantees it, then you can likely claim on his insurance if it turns out to be below 50% and you suffer a loss.
If you want to know the legal use of a building without a CofO, it’s basically speculation unless an LNO is obtained. Yes in some situations it’s pretty clear, but it sounds like the I-cards were ambiguous and you’re not sure. You could consult an architect or attorney to better understand your options, but ultimately this is a risk that will be experienced by the buyer.
mstamib
in General Discussion 5 years and 9 months ago
Actually, looking back at the I-card, it was used as a 3-family going back to the 50s, and there was actually an illegal conversion of the third floor that was dismissed in 1954. I guess it was changed to a 2 at some point, but not clear when and it was used as a 3 up until a few years ago when the current owners renovated. So confusing.
hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago
What was it’s last use prior to 1939 or so? Is there no icard before that? Probably was 1family. Does the I card have a converted stamp on it? Tell us more. There may be a missing coo out there if the icard shows it was converted in the 50s.
dorkofwindsor | 5 years and 9 months ago
“garden-level 1-bedroom English basement” – if you have a level walk-out to the backyard then you are in great shape as far as legality of basements go as that would be a true English basement. If there are stairs up the back, then yes you need to do more research as Urbandad suggests. Whether the configuration / egress is to code is another issue, but true English basements were always intended to be a legal apartment then and now. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago
I think there are two questions here. One is what is the grandfathered legal status of the building, and two is whether the basement is legally a basement or a cellar. If the legal status matches your desired use you are probably fine. If you have to change it, then you need to be sure the basement is a basement and not a cellar, but it will still be a huge problem to change the cofo.
cate | 5 years and 9 months ago
if it’s more than 50 percent above grade as measured from the curb, it’s likely legal living space. (There are other requirements too, such as ceiling height and egress.) I’m not sure who can say for sure — perhaps an architect experienced with code.
Lurker | 5 years and 9 months ago
there are a ton of considerations. the first being that you have to have a minimum 8 foot ceiling. you have to have correct ratios of light to square footage, and proper egress, for instance.
lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 9 months ago
A home is one of the largest investments you can make in your life. Dealing with the DOB can be one of the most ambigious situations of your life (coming from someone who talks to them everyday).
Make the right decision on a large investment and contact an Expeditor Service. For a very small fee, they will be able to get you an answer on this without making assumptions or guesses on the DOB!