Parquet Border
I used a 16 guage on my kitchen. In pairs. It does not look bad but perhaps to 234bcd’s point, a 15 guage would look better. I bet the nails they used were about 15. Maybe smaller. The ones in this 1928 house are small.
stevecym
in General Discussion 4 years and 8 months ago
26
Please log in, in order to post replies!
26 replies
hkapstein | 4 years and 8 months ago
So I’m thinking about installing an 1890s style parquet border in a room that dos not have original flooring. It seems it is common for them to come glued up and backed, so they won’t need to be top nailed. The topnailing is part of the look, so I’m wondering if I should consider shooting finish nails into the product after it’s installed. Will the glued up version look funny, or too regular? Any opinions on whether to use 3/4″ or 5/16th peices? Anyone done this? What do you think?
Urbandad
stevecym | 4 years and 8 months ago
3/4″ t&g has the same sanding thickness as 5/16. Many if not most of the old houses are 5/16. All of the real floor suppliers stock the 5/16. I did my kitchen using 5/16 even though at the time I had more experience with 3/4 t&g. I might prefer 5/16 under the assumption it saves resources.
I too nailed mine in a nice pattern thinking it was important at the time. I would forgo nails now and glue down.
Also, if you do this yourself, the t&g is a hell of a lot more back breaking work. The last time I did one I was in my late 40’s and it was a hot week in the summer and the customer was worried I would do myself in.
I do a lot of patches for people and in my own house and when I have questions I see the guy named Jack at the place right outside lowes gate. Might be NY floor. He is super helpful. I also use east side on 123 st in manhattan but they are less informative, used to selling more to specialists.
I have never lain precut squares but have made my own on site for patches. I have handled them though and they look like they would go down fast. Either way once you get going you can move.
stevecym | 4 years and 8 months ago
I just reread your heading. A border would be easy to cut and lay yourself out of 5/16. Whole floor, a lot of cutting. A border will go fast.
stevecym | 4 years and 8 months ago
I just thought more about this. I have patched parquet and herringbone. So here is the thing. Patching is easy as you are working in a defined space so it is hard to screw up. If I were making a border, I would nail down two straight firring strips the length of the wall and work between them. Once you lay the first one out, it will fly.
hkapstein | 4 years and 8 months ago
Thanks Steve, was just reading your post as you updated. I also want to do diagonal slats for the field area, so that would be a lot of cutting, and I do feel like it might be easier to top nail 5/16ths than to install tongue and groove, and it uses less finish material. Cuttting those diagonal slats may be a job, but since they are parallel, I’m think it will be not too bad with a miter saw. I need to find slats of wood 1.5″ thick though. Any thoguhts on this?
hkapstein | 4 years and 8 months ago
Regarding the furing strips, the vendors I’m talking to offer the product papererd apparantly so it can be be layed down and lined up and nailed or glued. Then the paper will be sanded off when the floor is sanded even prior to varnishing. There is some need to deal with corners. Some patterns have special corners pre made, and others require mitering or making, or other special techniques.
hkapstein | 4 years and 8 months ago
I think this will be a fun project, and with a little effort you can make a really neat looking floor at not much extra cost. 5/16ths flooring is cheaper than 3/4 T&G and as you point out, it has the same wear layer before you sand into the tongue and the floor is finished anyway. Plus you eliminate that pounding and pressing and it’s more like making a jigsaw puzzle.
But why glue vs nails? Is it easier? Nails can be pulled out if they need to, but glue is a one shot deal.
stevecym | 4 years and 8 months ago
I did a sort of large and diagonal patch for someone who posts here. It was fun and all is on 45’s. When you speak of nailing, are you thinking nail gun? I used 16 guage on my kitchen and a lot of patches. I shoot two nails near each other at crossing angles to make it harder for them to pull. Fast. Also, the gun presinks.
I have also glued. I posted a picture on here the other day of my landing. It was spongy. So I ripped the floor up and put down some thickened epoxy with the wood over it. That floor is the firmest in the house.
When I get nervous about the ability of nails to hold, say to overlay over crappy old sub floor, I sometimes use pl400. Or premium. They have newer, spreadable products now. Trowel them down.
Talk to that guy jack by lowes. Great help.
Arkady | 4 years and 8 months ago
I fixed a few areas on mine & found that the important thing to get it to match was to use quarter-sawn wood.
stevecym | 4 years and 8 months ago
not all floors use quarter sawn wood. and those that do get pricey.
hkapstein | 4 years and 8 months ago
Interesting point. Since this is a new floor, I don’t need to match the existing. Now quarter sawn oak looks really nice. And while it’s more expensive, the cost seems minimal compared to the cost of labor on the project. But nonetheless, I’m not sure that’s the way to go. I’m thinking I want to get select pieces that don’t have a ton of color variation to make the floor look really nice. Using plain sawn might be fine if the boards look good, particularly since it will be only 1.5″ strips. But if it’s all cathedrals, maybe not.
stevecym | 4 years and 8 months ago
not sure with flooring and you already may know but i think when i buy quarter sawn dimensional lumber, it is a full two times the price of plain sawn. i only use it when a customer asks for it.
if you want little color variation, go with white oak. i know that white oak can look a little bland under modern water base finishes, but you can either use a cheap water base floor finish and add a few drops of orange dye to it, just enough to see it tint a little or you can buy something like basic coatings street shoe which comes pre dyed to tint it over. i think Absco may also make pre tinted finish. we used the street shoe on our kitchen floor and its just a little lighter than oil base poly. i would say it is just right.
hkapstein | 4 years and 8 months ago
Thanks, I like the idea of white oak. Probably can save some $ by using the 5/16th inch material. I’m gonna just use oil based poly. It may not be around in 10-20 years when it need refinishing, but I’ll deal with that then. Probably will do UV finish if that happens.
stevecym | 4 years and 8 months ago
urbandad, i’ve refinished scores of floors and for years resisted the newer products. but the water base stuff is so much easier. two coats in a day, low odor. easy clean up. if i did my floors in this house tomorrow, it would all be water based. if you tell me what your reservations are or wish to email me, i’d be glad to address them for you. if you can get around the same things that i had to get around as i made the transition, you will be happy.
go see the guy just outside lowe’s gate. he is a great help. i want to say his name is jack. the company i think is New York Hardwood Floors. He has been so helpful to me that he deserves the exposure here.
hkapstein | 4 years and 8 months ago
Thanks, I’ll talk to New York Hardwood Floors. Have a couple leads on the floor but I think if you like this guy he’s probably good.
Now regarding the oil vs waterborne, here is why I’m liking oil:
1. More durable. I’ve tested many water products, and they don’t last as long. They are less abrasion resistant, less water resistant, less chemical resistant, and when they fail they tend to fail more rapidly. The oil usually buys more time to do the refinishing before the wood starts to get damaged. This disadvantage applies even to the water based finishes with cross-linking claims that I have so far tried. I’ve had a wood floor in a kitchen with water based and man was that terrible. Typically a water base finish needs to be redone about twice as often as an oil based one in my experience.
2. Appearance. You can tint a water base to look amber, some of them look pretty good, but they don’t age the same as the oil based ones. This alone is probably not a deal breaker, but with certain materials it’s easier to get the right look with the oil product. Water based products create more grain raise which may or may not be a problem depending on the project.
3. Application. For a contractor, it’s probaby much easier to do 5 coats of water and be out of there than to do 3 coats of oil. But if it’s a DIY or a longer project, I prefer to do 3 coats of oil and be done than to build a water base finish. The water is so thin, that on many projects, I end up actually doing 10-12 coats of water-base poly to get a decent finish. More coats means more chances to mess something up. The water is easer to work with and clean up, but I actually find there’s more opportunities to get a bad result with the water products. I actually found myself prefering shellac sometimes, and that the durability of the shellac was not too much worse than the waterbase but the recoat time was much shorter.
I think a better product than water is the newer UV cured finishes. I would use this, but special equipment is needed, and only a few shops have them at this point. UV is more durable than oil, and easier to apply. It cures fully and instantly with no offgassing. I haven’t seen enough of these to comment on the appearance, but I think this product will be getting more popular.
cate | 4 years and 8 months ago
Here is my (limited) experience for what it is worth: We used four coats of high quality satin (not semi gloss) water based poly — applied properly and given adequate time to cure — and it has held up amazingly so far for 11 years. No issues at all. (The floors in the baths and kitchens are Marmoleum, but the stairs are not covered and the finish is still looking great.) It’s pretty great to use on soft pine subfloors because it *doesn’t* change the color in unpredictable ways like oil does. However, I once lived in an apartment with a pale oak floor refinished with water based poly and the floor drove me crazy because it was so light, too light for my taste. Last, the oil takes forever to cure and the fumes are toxic so oil does not seem like an option if anyone is living in the space.
stevecym | 4 years and 8 months ago
Cate is correct but step away from the mass market product. They are ok and I used them from the mid nineties into the 2000’s but at some point I switched to Basic Coatings Street Shoe. I did a staircase with it in 2012 and so far as I know it looks brand new. Also as cate said, the oil can be unpredictable. It can go very dark which seems to be counter to what people want today.
stevecym | 4 years and 8 months ago
so urban dad, it sounds like you are the kind of person who appreciates the efforts of others so i took the liberty of contacting a customer and asking him to take some photos of a staircase i finished with Basic Coatings Street Shoe in 2012. the wood was not stained (we would have sanded it to 120 which is what i finish most wood to) and the finish went right on as it was out of the container; the orange tint is natural. it is not clear like the other water base finishes and like what cate alludes to. the finish is predictable and this is how it looked the day we finished it. also, the wood may very well be red oak, i cannot recall, and the finish managed to tone it all kind of even. and lastly, i called the customer and asked him if there had been any wear to the finish and this was his reply “none at all and that is surprising as we live near the beach”. it was my first use of the Basic Coatings product and i chose it for its durability, knowing the y lived by the beach.
[Stairs street shoe](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:KlBo:stairsstreetshoe.jpg.jpg) [Stairs II steet shoe](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:kxO0:stairsiisteetshoe.jpg.jpg)
stevecym | 4 years and 8 months ago
I might have misspoken above, we may have applied stain under that top coat. I am looking at a floor here and the street shoe does not color it this much.