Matching brownstone doorknob needed
The modern marks trim is plated. The lock cases are good. Baldwin is noticably not as good as it used to be, now that they are made in mexico. Their brass may come from china, but brass is brass. I did not know charleston works with baldwin.
stevecym
in General Discussion 4 years and 5 months ago
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17 replies
carly.wray | 4 years and 5 months ago
Hello,
The brownstone I live in has been missing a doorknob for several years. Can any of you help me find a similar match? It doesn’t need to lock necessarily, as there is already a lock above it. Please see attached photos! [IMG_0597](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:q53u:img_0597.jpg.jpg) [IMG_0627](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:aG4A:img_0627.jpg.jpg) [IMG_0625](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:gF4O:img_0625.jpg.jpg)
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 5 months ago
that looks like it could be a plate and knob from something like a marks mortise set. some of this you can buy in the corner store. if you cannot make a match with what is existing and if what is existing is only serving as a dummy, you can simply buy two new sets.
in truth, i have piles of this stuff here. we use the marks lock bodies and toss the trim aside. Legally, in addition to servicing doors, i am a retailer. if someone found their way to me and i had a few minutes i would help them. but i don’t make money that way and think perhaps you would be wise to talk to 5th ave lock (on 9th st, by Mcdonalds).
if you are stuck or need something specialized ordered, i can help. bear in mind i have an elevated first hour rate so i often suggest folks look toward the corner shop. i will even continue to help you on here so long as i think i can get you through this on your own-
you doors look ripe for a full on restoration that would make them look brand new.
my website is www.thetinkerswagon.com.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 5 months ago
you know, you have the mortise pocket already cut for the lock. if you went to home depot, they sell the Marks 91A locks for something like $75.00. i cannot say whether or not all of this will line up and if the plates are the same size from where i sit, but this should be pretty simple. also, 5th ave lock might have 91As in stock. you need a “left hand” 91a with detachable knobs on a spindle (not a through bolted lockset with fixed knobs). if i were down by where you are i would retail one of these for $65.00.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 5 months ago
also, when we do this, installing a dummy in something like this, we use the plate with the cylinder hole in it and put a dummy cylinder in. that way, when a bad guy looks at your doors from the street they think you have two working locks on there.
carly.wray | 4 years and 5 months ago
Understood, thank you! I suppose I could just get one of the new Marks locks and use something to make it look more worn like the knob next to it. The landlord plans to restore the doors at some point. I just told him I would try to help with the doorknob, as he is an elderly man with no idea how to go about starting to look for such things.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 5 months ago
see if you can get the new plates and do them all. unless you need the lock. the plates come in varying grades. i just bought some solid brass ones retail at a locksmith and paid like $20 for one plate. if you find something that is brass plated, it will be less.
this is what i am concerned about. if you buy solid brass, it will have a clear lacquer coat on it. we use lacquer thinner to soften and remove it (bad stuff). paint remover will do it. then it can age. but if you buy the cheap brass plated ones and start removing protective clear coats, it will rust. that is why i suggest doing them all.
i am trying to think who has a good selection of this kind of cheap “aftermarket” lock trim. its not in my wholesale suppliers catalog. i think leopolds has some 2/3 the way back on the right side of the store. and tarzan i think has some. Krown in Bushwick probably has a lot of it. middle aisle, toward front. i would definitely giv e Mazone hardware a look at they have a lot of stuff in general. the solid brass plate i bought came from the locksmith on Woodhaven blvd in Rego Park.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 5 months ago
if you had reason to be near zip 11379, i can sell you some product that has been laying around (new with scratches) for less than retail. not worth a special trip, imo.
IronBalls | 4 years and 5 months ago
Nobody answered your question, and I’m not going to either. First off, we need the exact measurements of the door plate and the door knob to find the right match on eBay. I’ve done this many times in the past, but it takes time and persistence. Eventually, there’s no question you can find the exact matching set.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 5 months ago
the exterior marks plate measures 2 3/4 x 10. if that is what op’s plate measures, the local hardware stores should have them.
hkapstein | 4 years and 5 months ago
If you need something perfect, and can’t find a match, ball and ball can make pretty much anything for you. Not sure if that would be in your budget, and personally, I’d try the other solutions described here first.
cate | 4 years and 5 months ago
House of Antique Hardware (and many other places) carries reproductions of this style. You can get two new matching ones. One is a dummy. You can also just plug the holes you have. You don’t need to have two new matching ones to look right. Plenty of double doors throughout Brooklyn have the antique door knob and plate only on one side.
hkapstein | 4 years and 5 months ago
@cate also check out charlestonhardware.com. A great referral from Nate and Inna Shelkopf at Southside Workshop, they have many great historical door hardware repro pieces and are a bit more competitive on prices from what I’ve seen.
Guest User | 4 years and 5 months ago
The example may be easily matched at Olde Good Things. Pretty sure I have seen that design multiple places. Places like Ball & Ball usually have a minimum run that would cost at least 5K usually closer to 10k. Charleston has a lot of good repro hardware. It’s much harder to find parts to match an existing set vs buying a new set.
hkapstein | 4 years and 5 months ago
FYI ball and ball was willing to do a reproduction of a small item for me for 50 bucks or so. They wanted to do it in brass, and on this particular item I wanted cast iron, which is more difficult to cast due to the higher temperatures involved in melting iron, but I did find a foundry to make it for me in CI for the same price. But I liked the folks at ball and ball a lot. I wouldn’t necessasrily assume you’d be spending 5k+ minimum, but it really depends on how hard it is to make the item you’re trying to reproduce.
Guest User | 4 years and 5 months ago
Urbandad, thank you for the information. There is a difference I agree between repro and custom and depends on if they have the mold etc. So that makes sense and worth a try then. Yes they are nice people!
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 5 months ago
Since some of the responses seem geared toward getting nice or exact product for a match or restoration, i’ll explain why these inexpensive plates can be hard to find.
These are made to fit the modern marks lock. Made so the dummy plates size alongside them and so the cylinder holes in the real lock plate line up. They are not made by marks. They are made by two or more after market manufacturers. One of the manufacturers makes locksmith grade product and when we are lucky, we find solid brass plates in a locksmith supply. The wholesale catalogs i have do not list them. Any time i go to a locksmith shop for a solid brass one to use on a high end restoration, i am lucky if they have one on the shelf. I do not think the demand is there for the solid brass ones and if i found two on a shelf, i would by them. Rego park had one two months back and i got it.
So this leaves the cheap brass plated ones. These are made by a firm called Tuff Stuff. These are not really a locksmith shop product, but a knock off hardware store product. These are marketed by hardw are distributors, not lock distibutors (i think). We find tuff stuff product (it is garbage) in leoplodis, krown, continental in f. Hills, and a bunch other corner stores. The issue is, they are selling to hardware store owners who are not locksmiths who may not understand why someone may really need this stuff, how it could save them from buying a new lockset. If you called a hardware store and told them you need an eustucheon plate that looks like a marks 91a plate, they might not have a clue what you are talking about – even though they might have 3 on the shelf that tuff stuff sold them. Krown in bushwick would know because the manager/owner s a locksmith.
I tried to order a trim kit from marks through the wholesaler once. It is cheaper to buy new marks locks. This is how we end up with odd parts laying around.
Been there, done that.
There is an odd chance that this is not marks product the op has. There is some older stuff out there (marks has only been in business since like 1980). I saw something the other day that was not marks. If the size of the locally available trim kits are not close to this and considering the patina, op would be better replacing it.
While charleston has nice product, marks is beneath them. If old good things had something like this, they would sense desparation and four fold the price. And having this made is impractical for something where the door might not be there in 5 years if op’s landlord does not do something about it.
If op posts the plate size i will take a look and see what else i have. I have some other plates and maybe have a used marks or one that is sized as theirs.
hkapstein | 4 years and 5 months ago
@steve, is the actual marks product solid brass, or plated? I see them all the time, but I never really thought about it. I like the marks mechanism personally, although I’ll probably end up using baldwin when I do my next project(charleston trim is designed for baldwin mortise units).