Master Plumber Help Desperately needed!

put a regulator on that supply line in the basement. Pressure is to much.

hillman

in General Discussion 8 years and 7 months ago

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reuventenam | 8 years and 7 months ago

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Run Joe might be correct

stuyheights | 8 years and 7 months ago

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Thanks for your 10 cents Hilman. They may end up being worth more than that. Ill certainly look into this. Run Joe- You make some very valid points and the “turbulence” noise you describe sounds like an accurate description of what I am hearing.

How would this be fixed? Do you think the pipe should be set up differently?
Also, the moment you all have been waiting for (drumroll). I set my phone up on top of the vanity this morning at the same time I know the top floor tenants get ready and recorded the sound. Brownstoner does not allow me up upload wav files but if any of you are interested in hearing it, you can email me at just8155 at gmail.

Greatly appreciate all of your help and input!

stuyheights | 8 years and 7 months ago

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After recording this noise in the morning and playing it over and over, I have a couple of new theories.

1. The “bang” happens every morning as the tenants are getting ready. I have been putting the phone on the master bathroom vanity and letting it record for an hour or so and I hear it every time. I had a guy come last week to drop a camera down the main stack from the roof and he found no obstructions. I stumbled across this article last night. http://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/toilet-flushing-causes-pipe-rumblings.12429/
The more I listen to it, the less and less I feel like it is a water hammer. Especially since there are water hammer arrestors attached to every fixture in the apartments. I wish I could upload the recording for you all to hear. I just don’t understand why it doesn’t make the noise every time. What do you think about this theory (of the attached link)?

2. I happened to be on the parlor floor the other night when I heard the toilet flush and heard the faint banging noise there as well. Keep in mind, my ceilings are sound proofed which would be masking the sound transmission. It really sounds like the noise is coming from the pipe itself. I cut open 2 parts of the wall in the parlor and a part of the ceiling in the master bath where the pipe runs down. I couldn’t move the pipe a bit with both hands on it. It would also blow the theory about the pipe hitting the framing in the bathroom because why would I still be hearing the noise on the parlor as well, even if it was faint.

3. Its some type of venting issue- Not enough or blocked. Again, we had a camera dropped from the roof down showing no obstructions unless the horizontal pipes that branch off into the main stack have some sort of partial obstruction. Please have a look at these pictures. [IMG_0627](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:bWYT:img_0627.jpg.jpg) [IMG_0625](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:Byj5:img_0625.jpg.jpg) [IMG_0626](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:zHjp:img_0626.jpg.jpg)

maybe something is possibly obstructed here that the camera didn’t see? would that be causing this loud noise I am hearing somehow? also, what if it isn’t vented properly and additional vents would need to be added or tied in? that sounds like an absolute nightmare.

Run Joe | 8 years and 7 months ago

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Is the sound coming from the cast iron piping in the first picture or from the PVC piping in the newer pictures. BTW, PVC is pretty noisey

stuyheights | 8 years and 7 months ago

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The plumber mixed and matched PVC and Cast Iron all over the place. The main stack is cast iron which goes down through the parlor and into the master bath which is where I am hearing the noise from (both on the parlor and ground floor). I didn’t want the ceilings dropped on the parlor so he made the T that attaches to the main stack with PVC but that’s not where I am hearing the sound but where I believe a potential obstruction could be based on the article I have attached. Thank you for your reply. Appreciate it

Run Joe | 8 years and 7 months ago

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Where do the two PVC pipes on the left go up to? What about the pipe below those 2 going down(with the reduced elbow).. where does that go?

If there was an obstruction along that T, wouldn’t it be noticeable at the tub and sink above? If there was a venting issue I would think that you would probably smell sewer gas there.

reuventenam | 8 years and 7 months ago

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There is one other possible cause I can think of. The water branch lies feeding the fixtures have tees. When splitting the flow of water to the fixtures the tees or tee feeding a toilet should be in a vertice position. If that tee is in a horizontal position because the toilet fill valve restricts flow. I know this because 15 years ago I did a bathroom job and my guy put the tee vertical splitting the water to the sink and tub. After talking to a couple of friends who are licensed plumbers they ask me the question of r he tee. We opened the wall saw the tee horizontal changes it in a
Vertical position and the problem was solved. Again I don’t know if this is what’s happening to you but it seems the toilet is your issue.

stuyheights | 8 years and 7 months ago

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Run Joe- One of those PVC pipes in the overflow for the laundry room I believe and the other is either a toilet or bathroom shower drain. We only have standup showers, no tub. I honestly couldn’t tell you if there would be an issue above. I only hear the bang after a flush. Its driving me mad. I wonder if I should pull the bowls and try to snake it just incase.

Reuven- I will have to check that out. I’m not sure.

reuventenam | 8 years and 7 months ago

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The issue seems to always be with the toilet
The saddest part of this is you may have to open the walls look at the piping reinstall the toilet and sink and start testing. That may be the only way to find a resolution. I hope it doesn’t come to that. Good luck

stuyheights | 8 years and 7 months ago

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Thinking out loud here,

We have a powder room we added on the parlor floor that is being redone. We still haven’t finished it yet and the toilet bowl has been taken off. Would this have anything to do with the sound we are hearing you think? I am trying to throw anything i can think of out there.

reuventenam | 8 years and 7 months ago

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I am not sure. Did you hire a plumber to do the work

Master Plvmber | 8 years and 7 months ago

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The noise is coming from the water line.
The noise is coming from the water line.
The noise is coming from the water line.
The noise is coming from the water line.
Oh em gee, the noise is coming from the water line.

The toilet fill valve, sometimes called a ballcock, is classified as a “quick-closing valve”. The sudden closing of that valve at the end of a flush cycle is causing the noise. The fact that it doesn’t always happen has to do with incoming water pressure fluctuations.
As advised earlier here and on the phone, adjust your flow rate by closing the shut off valve a bit and the noise will go away. Or, replace the fill valve with a better model.

coconut | 8 years and 7 months ago

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I have a plumber named Anthony Wells and this is the first time I can say I did not feel ripped off. His prices are fair and I like the fact that because he sees a woman he did not take advantage of me. He also had great reviews. 646-319-9988. Also I know about plumbing so I know when someone is lying to me and how the repair needs to be done so this is an honest man.

Master Plvmber | 8 years and 7 months ago

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Your honest plumber is operating illegally without a license. That’s why he’s cheap.
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/LicenseTypeServlet?vlfirst=N

stuyheights | 8 years and 7 months ago

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MP- Thanks for your reply. I did try adjusting the shut off valve when you had mentioned it to me but it didn’t help. I will be swapping out the fill valves on both apartment toilets with Fluidmasters this afternoon. I will keep you all posted. I greatly appreciate all of the input and advise.

Master Plvmber | 8 years and 7 months ago

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Then you didn’t turn it low enough. Anyway, try a different fill valve. This one seems to be the least fast-acting and quietest:
https://www.amazon.com/Korky-95001-Quiet-Toilet-Valve/dp/B00838IQRK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480853346&sr=8-1&keywords=corky+quiet+fill

stuyheights | 8 years and 7 months ago

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Good morning,
Installed these yesterday –

Korky 528MP QuietFILL Platinum Toilet Fill Valve https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004TKTX14/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_GRcrybPX73EJ6

Still heard the noise just now when the upstairs tenants flushed.

Master Plvmber | 8 years and 7 months ago

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It’s not in your drain line, I promise you. Do you not have a plumber you can call that will take a look?

stuyheights | 8 years and 7 months ago

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I’m wondering if it is the venting. Maybe not necessarily an obstruction but not properly vented in the buildout. We have smelt rotten eggs before in the tenants bathrooms but I didn’t think anything of it at the time. I cleaned the shower drain prior to them moving in.

Is it possible there isn’t enough venting? I know it vents out the top of the house. I dropped a camera down there which showed no obstructions. We didn’t take the toilets off to see if there were any blocks in the T lines which connect to the waste line.

Water hammer arrestors were installed at every fixture in the house- they were soldered on. A friend of ours told us yesterday he hates that kind because if not installed correctly, the plumber could overheat the arrestor and cause it to not function properly upon installation. I guess this could be possible.

Another therory I have is trying a “master reset” where we would drain all of the water out of the house and start over with proper fixtures on and off when we did it incase there were air in the lines? Would this be possible if the plumber didn’t restart the system properly or would that not even matter?

If it is a venting issue and not enough of it, I’m wondering how we would even fix it at this point to add venting lines to the stack.

I have a google drive album that shows all of the roughing of pics we took during many different phases of the construction of our house to reference to see what was done here.

I have had many plumbers come here and I can never get it to make the sound and everyone tells me they need to hear it. I do have recordings of it but have yet to be able to show someone while they are actually here.

Greatly appreciate your time. This has been going on for about 6 months and driving us absolutely mad.