Licensed mason and permit needed for cellar wall repair and repointing?
It seems like an unusual situation to have an additional rubble wall inside the foundation wall, but maybe I’ve just never seen one like that. It’s not uncommon for the foundation wall to be thicker at the bottom than at the top, or a party wall to be thinner than the foundation or decrease in thickness as it goes up. Unless it’s obvious that it’s not part of the foundation, it seems like something worth discussing with an engineer, at least informally.
hkapstein
in General Discussion 6 years ago
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cate | 6 years ago
We noticed a section of our cellar wall is separating from the party wall behind it. It is bowing out and cracking, presumably because the mortar inside has turned to sand. To repair, a mason would need to remove a section of the wall at a time and rebuild it, using jacks to support the beams. Presumably if the job is not done correctly, it could cause settling at best and collapse of our and the neighbor’s wall at worst. Is a permit and licensed mason required for this work? What kind of permit?
Guest User | 6 years ago
i’m not sure what kind of permit you would need but i would definitely get a structural engineer involved to make sure it is done safely.
Guest User | 6 years ago
i’m not sure what kind of permit you would need but i would definitely get a structural engineer involved to make sure it is done safely.
stevecym | 6 years ago
my guess is that if an engineer states that this is an emergency, no permit is needed though i do think one would have to be applied for. something like this happen with a party wall down the road and the dob showed up and asked for a permit and the contractor stated it was an emergency and the dob left.
hkapstein | 6 years ago
You need to be careful how you proceed here. If the wall needs to be rebuilt, or shoring is required for the repair, you’d definitely need a permit, probably a foundation or structural work type. People don’t always pull a permit for work that “requires” one, but in this case I probably would want to.
The first step is to have a qualified engineer with experience with stone foundations and historical buildings take a look at what is going on. I imagine a consultation will cost around 500, but it will save you money and I’ll explain. First, you need to understand that old foundations were built with lime/sand mortar rather than portland cement mortar. I won’t explain all the details here, but it’s common for a contractor or even an engineer to tell you that it’s turned to sand or fairy dust or whatever, but lime mortar structures actually have a track record of lasting hundreds or thousands of years. Portland cement based mortars are hard and chemically different. Lime products are no longer widely available and are generally used only in high end restorations such are landmark churches or other historically significant structures. However my point is, you may be able to save at least part of the wall by repointing it, possibly with a naturally hydraulic lime or air lime mortar, or other suitable mortar. However the likelihood of finding the right people to do this is low, and the damage may have progressed too far.
Next understand how permits work. If structural work is required, an engineer will draw detailed plans showing the shoring and repair, stamp the plans, and those plans will be filed with and approved by DOB. After this, you can select a contractor who will give you a price to perform the work in the plans. That contractor will then pull a permit on the job number corresponding to the plans you filed. To pull a permit the contractor will need an insurance policy registered with DOB for $1,000,000 in liability insurance. There is no license for a mason, but a general contractor is supposed to have a home improvement contractor license to work in a one or two family building. In my opinion that license is not important, because it does not require any construction qualifications to obtain one. You may want a contractor who has a $5,000,000 liability policy or more because claims could get large if someone were injured or you destabilized the party wall and damaged the neighboring house.
You will likely need some special inspections, which are essentially forms that an engineer will stamp when the work is complete confirming it complies with the plans after inspecting it according to certain professional criteria. Probably a soil test will be needed before the work begins. The engineer should will have liability insurance that could protect you against liability if a failure in the wall occurs due to a problem with the design of the repair.
All of this adds costs and complexity, but repairing the foundation of your party will presents a major safety and liability concern, and I wouldn’t want to accept that liability for an unprofessional repair. Not to mention, if it’s not done correctly you’ll be doing it again soon and perhaps even more work will be required at that point. A professional job would likely involve inspecting the wall from the neighbor’s side, and ideally discussing the solution with them, although it’s my understanding that generally either party can repair a party wall.
If you’re rebuilding the wall, I speculate a likely solution will be to remove 2 to 4 ft sections, and underpin the foundation up to the level of sound wall, or perhaps all the way to the top of the foundation with reinforced high strength concrete. Other solutions might involve replacing a section with steel, but you’d have to evaluate options with your engineer. A good engineer can save you a lot of money by designing a solution that is cheaper to build.
My guess would be it costs around 5-10k to file plans, and do all the special inspections. It could be less it could be more, and it might not even be necessary depending on what the solution is.
The work itself might cost 5-20k, but again that’s a total guess without really knowing what is going on. You could hire a masonry contractor to do something cheaper, but you won’t really know if you solved the problem, or if you actually had a problem, without the engineer.
None of this is professional advice, just my personal speculations. Good luck.
GreenThinker | 6 years ago
Awfully strange for the foundation to be bowing and cracking on the party wall/lot line side. These walls, rock or brick (sometimes a combination) , are fairly thick, at least a foot. I can understand cracks, but under normal conditions it should never bow. There needs to be some sort of lateral force in play. Whats on the other side? Presumably your neighbors cellar, perhaps they are doing some work that you aren’t aware of? I’d start with trying to take a look on their side, as to figure out why it’s bowing in the first place. It could certainly be something your neighbor has done/is in the process of doing, and in that case, they should be held responsible for it.
Personally, i’d also look around for someone that does new developments, they’ll know contractors that do heavy foundation work/shoring and all the filling and planning work required for it to be kosher.
hkapstein | 6 years ago
Cate, is this a real project or are you just trying to create some excitement on the forums?
cate | 6 years ago
It’s a real project. AFAIK the party wall is fine (fingers crossed). It’s about a five foot section of a wall in front of it that’s connected to it that is bowing and cracking.
daveinbedstuy | 6 years ago
How big of a section? If it’s only a few feet or 6′ at most, it sounds like a very isolated situation and I’d have an experienced mason take a look at it to determine the cause. You state that your “cellar wall is separating from the party wall.” Is this just a thin coating of mortar or stucco? If so it’s likely only a moisture issue. And how much bowing? The party wall is the structural element, not whatever “wall” you may have as a surface coating on top of it. As others have said, the party wall is typically a very thick wall. Also, pics might be helpful.
cate | 6 years ago
I’ll try to post some pics soon. It’s a small section of rubble wall about five by four feet or so. It’s a pretty thick rubble wall, about one foot deep. The rubble party wall behind it is presumably even thicker. The part that is cracking is around the cellar staircase, and the wall stops about a foot short of the cellar ceiling, whereas the party wall behind it continues on up to the ceiling.