Latent Defects In Gut Reno

“Slopefarm speaking truth” — LOL, too bad I had to live it to speak it.

slopefarm

in General Discussion 6 years and 8 months ago

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mrfrio | 6 years and 8 months ago

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I recently purchased a gut reno from a developer. Though there were two inspections done (long story), since moving in we have been discovering issues . I am wondering whether anyone has any experience getting anything from a developer/seller after closing. At first issues were annoying, i.e. sliding closet doors needed to be rehung because they are misaligned and I discovered that they mangled the tops of the doors installing the railing. Then we discovered that a jacuzzi tub has a leak when water burst through the ceiling below. With the cold weather we felt cold breezes in the kitchen area and when I pulled off the kick plates off of the cabinets I discovered that behind the cabinetry they never sealed the wall to the floor so there was a 2″ wide gap running the length of the cabinetry along two walls of the kitchen. I’m starting to lose sleep worrying about what other issues are coming. I understand that I purchased the home as-is with no warranties but I feel like there should be some liability for construction defects that would not have been discovered by inspec tion. I believe that new developments have a 1 year statutory warranty. Shouldn’t there be similar protections when the developer replaces everything other than the roof and the facades???

slopefarm | 6 years and 8 months ago

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What there should be and what there is in the way of protections are two very different things. Get real legal advice on this, but generally you are SOL here against the seller for shoddy work. Also, how much are we talking about to remedy? It needs to be pretty substantial in terms of dollars to warrant litigation (seller isn’t going to fix out of guilt or generosity).

One question is whether any (and how much) of this rises to the level of real fraud — e.g., did the seller know about the leak and deliberately hide it? A question to explore with a lawyer whether that gets you anywhere, but even if it did as a legal matter (and I just don’t know if it does), you would still need a strong and valuable claim to make pursuing this worthwhile.

Another is whether some of this stuff that could have been found on inspection. Misaligned sliding doors? How hard was that for you to discovery? Conceivably, you have a claim (again, a difficult one) against the inspector.

Otherwise, let’s just add this post to the mounting body of evidence on this site that one needs to really, really beware in buying a flipper renovated house. It can be the worst of both worlds — you pay a reno premium over an unrenovated house, and then have to reno a bunch of stuff all over again.

yudashasom | 6 years and 8 months ago

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I think a lot of people assume, just because they are buying a renovated house, that it will be easy and trouble free. Home ownership is a tremendous amount of work and even with a properly done renovation, you’ll always have a long list of things to do. Not saying this is the case with the OP but just a thought.

slopefarm | 6 years and 8 months ago

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that’s true, n-p. But flipper renos are a special hazard here. When the goal is to maximize resale and minimize costs, tremendous incentive to take shortcuts, particularly where no one can see them. A joist is in the way of the easiest path for plumbing, cut a piece out o the joist. Leak too costly to fix, just rock, patch and paint and don’t run the tub if you don’t have to. And who really needs insulation?

dorkofwindsor | 6 years and 8 months ago

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Slopefarm speaking truth. “developer” might be generous.

Watch things like your showers that may not have been properly waterproofed (over time watch for leaks or mild spots on adjacent sheetrock), bathroom fans that may not be sized or vented correctly, rough plumbing extremely rough (guess you have seen this), finished basement floors with no thermal / vapor break that will develop mold underneath, unaddressed water management in the yard and basement, rear yard walls / chimneys that desperately needed repointing but were quickly and thinly parged. Sound management issues b between floors esp if walls are ceilings are sheetrock.

I don’t think you will see pre-financial crisis flips have problems with phantom master plumber permits pulled that are have gas lines done by handymen level skill, poor or missing venting or traps, electrical not even close to code, etc.

Adjust your expectations, don’t lose sleep at night because things are going to go wrong and you won’t really know what kind of reno you have for a couple years. I’ll guess this is your first brown stone, and had you done your own reno (if you see some threads here) it has notoriously affected people’s performance at work, marriage, and parenting – even divorces. The worries you have now are not near that level of insanity.

If you run into serious problems, and an attorney letter does not have as much effect, you can always contact the NY attorney general. This is what they are here for, to advocate for situations exactly such as yours. So far it doesn’t sound like you have encountered more than mild issues as far as flips go. If i were to give advice, address things as they arise. The building will almost certainly not fall down, sleep tight. These days it is not usually as bad as your worries.

mrfrio | 6 years and 8 months ago

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Thanks to both of you. I get that home ownership is work. I personally love the opportunity to shed my desk worker persona and actually do something. It has been so gratifying to fix the leak myself, install dimmer switches, replace light fixtures, etc., etc. I don’t, however, expect that when I move into a newly renovated home that I would need to tear apart the kitchen to do what should have been done in the first place.

mrfrio | 6 years and 8 months ago

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Woops – responded before I saw the post from dorkofwindsor. I really appreciate your note, thanks. We bought a renovated building out of fear of the potential negative effects of overseeing a construction site. It is my first brownstone and maybe my expectations are too high. Hopefully I don’t encounter any of the things you mentioned!