Hallway width

@barelybrownstone, can you say where you read that about the hall? It sounds like it would have been in the chapter about egress. If so, the whole chapter is subject to the exclusion I mentioned.

I feel like at this point I should have some sort of disclaimer, lest someone say I’m suggesting unsafe practices. None of this should be taken as a suggestion to create unsafe conditions. The codes, especially the older ones, represent the bare minimums in safety requirements, and they are constantly being changed to improve life safety, especially when it comes to egress and fire protection. 28″ is a narrow hallway, and you may want to consider widening it, depending upon the configuration.

jimhillra

in General Discussion 6 years and 5 months ago

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sherry.parnes | 6 years and 5 months ago

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We are planning to do some renovation work of our 2-family brownstone. Namely, flipping the top floor apartment to the garden level. As there is an I-card on file with HPD, we are planning to file as an Alt-1. However 2 things:

1. The icard says that there is an apartment on the garden floor and one on the top floor and bedrooms only on the parlor floor. There is in fact, a kitchen on the parlor and top levels now and none on the garden. Could this mean we could file an Alt 2?

2. Our upstairs hallway is narrow, 28 inches, but we are not planning on doing any change to the walls/layout of this top floor. We are simply turning the kitchen into a bathroom, not touching room size or anything. Architects say we need to widen it, many others say since the building is old (1899) that it should be overlooked in some sort of grandfathering mentality.

Any experience with the above would be most appreciated, keeping in mind that the code is tweaked constantly….

MANY THANKS!

mattieweiser1

in General Discussion 6 years and 5 months ago

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When I bought my house there was a violation on a narrow hallway 28″ wide. In order to correct that violation we would need to widen it. We do not know how that violation got there in the first place. In your case, it is likely that the DOB will catch this at the inspection but there is no way to know for sure. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

sherry.parnes | 6 years and 5 months ago

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Thanks @rach_brooklyn. Was it a property that had been renovated or was it pre-renovation or at least any documentation that was in the DOB file?

mattieweiser1

in General Discussion 6 years and 5 months ago

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Good question. Come to think of it, it was an HPD violation. There were obvious prior renovations that were undocumented with the DOB. We have yet to receive grief from the DOB but they have not done an inspection.

resident2 | 6 years and 5 months ago

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Consult a local Brownstone Architect that deals with this issue all the time.

joearchitect | 6 years and 5 months ago

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Normally there is an icard and HPD involvement only if the building is a 3-family or greater. If the icard shows 3-family and you want to use it as a 2-family, then yes, you need to file the renovation as an Alt-1. If the icard shows it 2-family and after renovation it will remain 2-family, then the alt-2 is fine. Changing the way the floors are combined does not trigger a C of O change if it remains the same number of units.

The narrow width of the hallway is a separate matter but if you are doing an Alt-1 that definitely triggers a greater level of code compliance and it is less likely anything substandard would be grandfathered. Good luck!

sherry.parnes | 6 years and 5 months ago

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@joearchitect Our expeditor said that since 2014 that is not the case. No matter what if there is no CofO they look for an i-card, stricter, I guess than 2014. Have you experienced otherwise and that’s why you say that? I would hope so!

jimhillra | 6 years and 5 months ago

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When filing with the DOB, you have the option of choosing under which code to fie the application. You can file under any code that was in effect when the building was built. If the building was built prior to 1938, then the ’38 code can be used, as can anything since then. In certain cases (notably sprinklers and accessibility, among others) the current code applies no matter when the building was built. However, egress is not one of those sections.

The egress section of the ’38 code states: “Unless specifically stated, the provisions of this article shall apply to all structures erected after January first, nineteen hundred thirty-eight; except… residence structures three stories or less above any basement in height and occupied by two families or less”.

“Three stories or less above any basement” means garden, parlor (first), second, and third floors. That’s a 4-story residence, and it does not need to meet egress codes if filing under the 1938 code.

You state that your home is two families, so what about the height? You may be entirely exempt.

sherry.parnes | 6 years and 5 months ago

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Thanks @jimhillra for the input. I also thought I read in the ’38 code that upper floor hallways needed to be as wide as the minimum width of the staircase leading to it. In this case that stairway is 32″. How to know which to apply?