Dear community: what is your favorite design for a brownstone deck?

Hire an architect. The Architect will file all the necessary paperwork for you. He may know a GC to recommend. You may have to pay for an engineer as well.

astoriahomeowner

in General Discussion 6 years and 7 months ago

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citizenjane | 6 years and 7 months ago

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Seeking great ideas from our crowd. 🙂

What designs for backyard (parlor floor) decks do you love (with stairs down to the back yard, of course)? This might include a separate outdoor space option for garden floor tenants. (If so, have you found sharing a back yard to be a workable setup, or is it really best to limit the back yard to one party?)

Have your favorite deck projects also incorporated backyard redesign (e.g. leveling the ground below the deck)? How complicated did you find doing this part too?

All suggestions that you are passionate about are eagerly sought.

Thank you in advance for your support!

Guest User | 6 years and 7 months ago

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We added a pretty standard 10′ deep steel deck from our parlor floor with stairs down to the yard, which we share with our tenants (we have a triplex over their garden-floor apartment). We gave the 10′ deep area beneath our deck to them in their lease, where they have a grill and a small dining table and chairs. We planned to make the division between this area and “our” bit of the yard quite solid, but actually, we’ve found that a few low rectangular planters to casually mark the line is totally fine. If your broker does their job of finding you really great tenants — which ours did, and which is obviously very important when you’re planning effectively to let another family share your home — then it’s actually rather nice and communal and not at all a problem to have a semi-shared space. It’s not like we hang out there together, but it’s nice to say hi when we are out at the same time. I guess what’s most important is that our outdoor dining table is on our deck, so it’s not like we’re ever awkwardly having two separate meals right near each other… The best thing about it though is that we both have dogs, and we allow their dog to run around — and even go to the bathroom — in our bit of the yard, because it has (fake) lawn. We had our dog before they moved in, and we actually encouraged them to get their own because we figured it would be nice for our pup to have a playmate (and it is! they’re now great friends). So we would wholly endorse! It feels just neighborly enough without everyone being on top of each other.

mozeeatupu | 6 years and 7 months ago

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> @gwrfgp
> a pretty standard 10′ deep steel deck from our parlor floor
Your deck is illegal.
Code limits up to 8 feet from the building into the rear yard, stairs to yard are limited to first story only and no storage is allowed under deck.
Was it filed?

daveinbedstuy | 6 years and 7 months ago

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By Susan at Sketch & Hammer The lattice on the sides though doesn’t meet code if you are filing. Can always add it after. [DSC00608](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s2/:brownstoner:zpl7:dsc00608.jpg.jpg) [DSC00609](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s2/:brownstoner:fHaO:dsc00609.jpg.jpg)

bocuckoo | 6 years and 7 months ago

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Can anyone explain what would need to be filed and not require for a deck? Steel landing and stairs required? Risk of not filing if code is followed? Thanks

mozeeatupu | 6 years and 7 months ago

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Decks
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/buildings/homeowner/decks-porches-swimming-pools.page

greenworks | 6 years and 7 months ago

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Btw my understanding is that the 8 foot rule is not written in stone, though it is referenced even in the City’s own materials as such — here’s an oldie but a goodie i reference when I think about a new deck:

https://www.brownstoner.com/forum-archive/2009/05/deck-question-s/

If that link doesn’t work, search the forum for “Deck Question 30′ restriction”

Has this changed?

daveinbedstuy | 6 years and 7 months ago

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Technically everything needs to be filed unless, of course, you know you can get away not filing because you know your neighbors won’t report you. Mine above was never filed but built to code (those side panels removable if it ever was inspected.. Essentially code means non combustible materials within 3′ of abutting property lines. So you build a steel structure and use some decking. A decent one is going to run close to $20,000 or more.

jimhillra | 6 years and 7 months ago

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In our experience, the 8′ limit has been applied in several different ways.

If for example, you have a parlor floor kitchen in the rear, with a deck, and under the kitchen, within the same volume (no extension) is a bedroom, living room, or another kitchen, which has windows onto the rear yard, under the deck, the DOB may limit the deck to 8′ if it is deemed to impinge on the light and air for the lower space.

Also, if the deck is more than 8′, it may count towards lot coverage. Depending upon the zone you’re in, lot coverage may be limited to 60% of the lot. Some zones may be higher or lower.

The 8′ definitely comes into play if the rear of the deck is closer than 30′ to the rear lot line. In that case, it’s allowed to project into the 30′ required rear yard by 8′ max, effectively reducing the open space beyond it to only 22′. In this case, it will definitely count towards lot coverage.

As an architect, I would definitely say to file it. Yes, this will add a few thousand bucks, but it’s the right way to do it.

NeoGrec | 6 years and 7 months ago

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We have a full-width, 11-foot deep deck which we love. But because of rampant mosquitos, I’d love to convert part of the space to a screen porch. May be tough to get this permitted in my historic district, but, if it’s an option for you, it could be worth considering.

andy | 6 years and 7 months ago

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Some random thoughts, having just added a typical deck (filed and completely legal). In my view it was the least efficient dollar to value piece of my renovation.

It will run you ~30K and quite possibly more and this does not include architect fees plus expediter plus structural engineer plus second structural engineer to sign off on the footings (yes, to do this correctly I had to hire and pay two different structural engineers), etc. Easily 40K all in for me and my contractor was complaining he was losing money on it.

If you file, your architect/expeditor might tell you it needs to be all non-flammable material. They might insist. But as in daveinbedstuy’s photo, you CAN legally file with an iron grate ~3′ from the edge of the property line and then wood from there on in (ipe typically).

Give some thought to the drainage in your back yard. If you are not currently leaking in through you walls, you may want to be careful messing with the ground near your building/foundation. I had to put in a drainage system into concrete to push water away from the house (it was seeping through the foundation walls).

murph | 6 years and 7 months ago

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Mozee’: What you say. When you sell if it’s not legal you must remove it.

daveinbedstuy | 6 years and 7 months ago

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No. Houses are sold every day with illegal (non permitted) decks. And all sorts of other non-permitted work.

citizenjane | 6 years and 7 months ago

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Thank you for all of your replies and sorry for my slow response.

I will definitely investigate all of the code aspects and ask questions in response to your individual ideas.

Meanwhile, are there any deck designs that really appeal to you aesthetically? Or practically [i.e. door type/location, straight stairs versus ones that turn, materials recommendations (i.e. to allow as much light as possible to go to the garden floor apt), how to work with an extension, any important components to consider with toddlers in the house, etc.]?

Thank you so much!

citizenjane | 6 years and 7 months ago

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@ neogrec, I agree – screened in porch would be ideal, but the code…

citizenjane | 6 years and 7 months ago

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@ all – how long did the process take? how long did getting the DOB permit itself? Does it involve an inspection to get approval?

@gwrfgp – glad to see other community oriented homeowners like you. i thought sharing a backyard with boundaries should work. another alternative would be to design the front yard to give the garden floor tenants their own place.

@jonkotaco, yikes – that’s much more than I anticipated. Can you breakdown the cost elements that add up to $40K? We have big slate “tiles” in our back yard to deal with and will eventually need to re-set the slant of the backyard away from the basement. I’d hoped to do that next summer.

sweetlou | 6 years and 7 months ago

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We replaced an old wooden deck with a new one, up to code, filed with the city. Came to over $40,000 including expeditor and architect. Used ipe for the decking and stairs. The steel deck itself was quoted at $15,000. We also opened up our back exterior wall and replaced a single door with a sliding glass double doors so that was at least 1/3 of the job.

kassie319 | 6 years and 7 months ago

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The $40k number is roughly where I ended up for masonry, steel work, new door expediter, engineer and special inspections – I did all design work and filing drawings myself.
I used steel flat bar as flooring to allow as much light as possible to the ground floor apartment. Straight stairs to a masonry landing . If it’s south facing definitely consider shade – I put in a simple steel frame for wisteria/ clematis. Bring power and water (if you have any planters in mind) there if possible. Think about the lighting – I have a mix of 120v sconces and 12v spotlights.
At the garden level I poured a 5′ concrete slab pitching away from the back of the house. I also had large stone pavers leftover from the previous owner. For a minute I considered giving a small space to our basement tenant but I’m glad I didn’t, especially as the deck floor is openish. I gave them part of the front garden instead.

citizenjane | 6 years and 7 months ago

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@all, do you know how long it takes to get a deck approved by DOB these days?