Brownstone Stoop Repair vs Entire facade

i am not leaving this because i have watched people make the same mistakes with contractors over and over. Dork thinks my suggestions here are “clever lines about the wisdom of people who cannot express themselves…”. i am on here as someone who has worked in this at ALL levels since before some of the people reading this were born and have watched these problems play out in Brooklyn for over ten years now.

Professionals selecting a contractor would assume that if someone is in a business long enough that they are running a crew doing this kind of work, that they would have encountered the question the OP is proposing at least a few times and learned that having the answer and being able to state it could be the difference of them getting the job or not.

professionals will not give someone a pass if they cannot express themselves because it is part of their job to be able to explain things. If a professional really likes and wants to work with a contractor, they might do as the OP has done here, and come on here or research the issue, and then they might work with the contractor after possibly seeing the contractor can work with what the customer explained to them.

Professionals realize that as they apply “tests” to the selection process, they may inadvertently cut a talented person or team from the running. but they also realize, that there is a very good chance that the failure of the contractor to be able to address the question of the color issue over two phases (and i would not trust a contractor with something as important as this, i would go behind his back) may very well be indicative of something else; if people want to stop getting crap, they have to raise the bar and demand more.

i am sorry if my posts are too long or if i could not answer the OP’s question and diverged here. i am not coming on here as the woodworker or someone who can explain anything about mortar; i am on here because i once worked for firms selecting contractors for woodworking projects, wood floor refinishing, parapit wall repairs, and reroofing (with the exception of the woodworking and floor refinising, i knew nothing about any of these things). sometimes i was told who we should select, others times it was left completely to me but i was always part of the decision making process. after realizing that the mistake homeowners are making is in the selection process, i thought about calling one of my former bosses and asking him to help me put a list of guidelines together to help folks on here and then i realized i cannot call him and ask for his help because we had done this so much together that he would think i was an utter idiot for not knowing it and he would wonder what he had had working for him.

People are saying what i am writing is too wordy or too long. it is my belief that if people wish to learn here and protect the biggest investments of their lives, they have to read more than the short snippets we have become so used to using on the internet. i am trying to share not only knowledge, but a way of processing and understanding with people that i think is needed. keep in mind what i have said, contractors do not have these issues when they hire someone to work on their own homes because contractors know how to eliminate people from the selection process; there is no reason why none of you should be doing the same.

stevecym

in General Discussion 5 years and 11 months ago

26

Please log in, in order to post replies!

26 replies

Newest Oldest

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5138 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4933 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "21525"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "stevecymbalsky@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "/forums/users/thetinkerswagon/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:05:31"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "xLyD4JX1CSeJzFu7zs4j"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(21525)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Dork, and this is a diversion from this post, but there is something I have been witnessing and I am not sure others have seen it, but there are people doing jobs and tasks and they do not know WHY they are doing them. they do not understand the preparation and how it effects the final product. for someone like myself who had realized how dangerous this is and why things fall apart when we have people working in processes, it feels to me as if the entire story has to be flushed out. As with the guys who are screwing the work up, and who might think it is ok to do the mortar in two phases, there are homeowners who do understand WHY professionals might ask the questions they do and where it might lead them and I feel that what I am saying needs justification.

I might call the brownstone mortar company and come on here with very wordy summary of that one of their folks told me just to show people what we learn when we call someone who really knows. (and by the way, back to the OP’s concern, I would very cautious about proceeding in two phases).

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5136 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5135 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "21525"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "stevecymbalsky@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "/forums/users/thetinkerswagon/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:05:31"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "xLyD4JX1CSeJzFu7zs4j"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(21525)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

this is from the Brownstone Guide by the New York Landmarks Conservancy and they also make it sound like the contractors are adding the dye on site themselves (that would be the secret to getting a match in phase II; knowing his formula):

“Color Matching: Color matching is one of the most crucial aspects of creating a successful composite patch and should be based on a careful examination
of the existing stone. The contractor or an architectural conservator who specializes in masonry can do the color matching. Manufacturers of proprietary mixes can provide a custom color match based on a sample of the stone being repaired. Samples of proprietary mixes should be prepared in accordance with manufacturer’s instructions.”

these folks make it sound like color matching can be done in this industry just like woodworkers and painters match color to existing products; the contractor should know the answer.

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4933 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4940 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "21525"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "stevecymbalsky@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "/forums/users/thetinkerswagon/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:05:31"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "xLyD4JX1CSeJzFu7zs4j"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(21525)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

the conservancy has a technical services center and i bet they can answer questions but then it becomes a matter of knowing if the contractor can meet what the tech people said. if someone were to talk to them and learn what they have to say and then put some questions to the contractors and watch their answers you can learn about them. if they say something is “risky” or they “cannot guarantee it”, they are being honest with you and get merit for being so (but they might not get the job). if a guy says “absolutley 100%” he can match it, he might be certain he can. at that point, ask to see a job where he did a partial restore and match the stoops to the house.

this is how contractors weed these people out so we do not get fooled by them. keep in mind, i know very little about mortar and nothing about mixing dyes in it but i would have no problem selecting the right person for the job.

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5135 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5138 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "21525"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "stevecymbalsky@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "/forums/users/thetinkerswagon/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:05:31"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "xLyD4JX1CSeJzFu7zs4j"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(21525)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

ok, a customer just came back to me with the name of the people doing her facade right now: Amin. there is a super on site and the owner or someone close to him appears everyday. the customer has done nothing but sing their praises. i can get their number is desired.

dorkofwindsor | 5 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4940 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5136 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "176774"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "dorkofwindsor"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bov.472kQmY8OGlKN.dDXa5nt5gnOG0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "dorkofwindsor"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "dorkofwindsor@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(28) "/forums/users/dorkofwindsor/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:25:48"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "dorkofwindsor"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(176774)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Steve, everyone knows Amin. He has at least half of the business in park slope. You’re being perhaps a little too overzealous – this isn’t what the OP wanted (he already has quotes) and now you are speculating on things he may want. Can we give it a rest? There are plenty of clever lines about the wisdom of people who cannot explain things succinctly. I wont go there but ****please***.

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5138 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4933 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "21525"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "stevecymbalsky@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "/forums/users/thetinkerswagon/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:05:31"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "xLyD4JX1CSeJzFu7zs4j"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "stevecym"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(21525)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

dork, thank you for that reply. there is a way to get the answer to what they are looking for and i have suggested that. would you comment to that for me (and not my suggestion of another contractor) so that i can understand if people are checking things behind contractors backs the way professionals would do? is what i am suggesting useful or even understood? or is that suggestion redundant as my suggestion of another contractor? do people on here call manufacturers? (assuming someone makes a Brownstone Mortar). do they think that is bizarre? (i bet DIBS calls manufacturers; i can tell by his posts).

i am assuming that the fear here is the colors will not match or something else will look different. Contractors that i have dealt with in my life should be able to satisfy the OP’s concerns about this and i do not think it has been done here nor in a lot of other cases. its wrong.

i am with you on the caution part. i get that.