Air to Water Heat Pump with Radiators

This comes from the Viessmann website. Viessmann is a UK manufacturer of air to water heat pumps:

“If the outdoor temperature drops too low for your heat pump to produce any heat, a backup may be required. This is unlikely to occur in the UK, however, heat pumps in countries such as Canada may need to rely on a backup. This can become expensive, so if you live in an extremely cold climate, a heat pump may not be the most efficient way to heat your home.”

The efficiency of these systems declines until they get to a point that they do not work. that point appears to be about 15 degrees Fahrenheit (according to the Viessmann website). “back up” on these is probably an electric coil.

they seem to be higher tech versions of the heat pumps i experienced in North Carolina in the 1980’s. Those stopped working at about freezing and an electric coil came on. I just checked, an on-line source said some of ours can work down to 25 degrees F.

justinromeu26

in General Discussion 2 years and 4 months ago

30

Please log in, in order to post replies!

30 replies

Newest Oldest

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5111 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5099 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "189743"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BjSWB1c5WUJ0DBogl53oBDpnZifM8J."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "justinromeu26@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2022-05-10 20:48:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(61) "Your First Name Your Last Name Your First Name Your Last Name"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(189743)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Jeremy, my in-laws still had coal fire places in their house until they passed away in the past decade. As they got older, one of the sons got them gas fired inserts. Their father complained that they did not heat as well as the coal and had them removed.. i think he missed walking out to the coal bin.

I see space in old european row houses as being an installation problem as many do not have basements. But this stuff must be so compact it fits in a closet or under the sink.

Colonial, we went through something i am attempting to convey here in this house wth the refrigerator. We bought a new refrigerator. It is not garbage. It has all sorts of technology that puts it light years ahead of the old amercan one. I consider the old american stuff to be “junk” because it was big, heavy and simplistic. But, i questioned what i was doing having something (from the 1980’s) removed from my house that would have lasted perhaps twenty more years for something that might last 15 years.

The mindset will shift on this stuff with a younger generation that i s accustomed to things that don’t last 40 years and as we see the life cycle of products change we are sure to see advsnces in technoloy

gururoofing | 2 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5110 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5109 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "190101"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "gururoofing"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BVeWE2DX/UFs4w3li6Qopo29jfrTLd."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "gururoofing"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "gururoofing01@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-02-22 16:47:42"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(25) "Guru Roofing Guru Roofing"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(190101)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

The consensus here is that there is no practical way to reuse old cast iron radiators without gas right now in New York. Is that right?

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5099 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5106 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "189743"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BjSWB1c5WUJ0DBogl53oBDpnZifM8J."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "justinromeu26@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2022-05-10 20:48:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(61) "Your First Name Your Last Name Your First Name Your Last Name"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(189743)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

i can tell you that when i travel to Europe and they have these newer heating systems (and i am not yet sure what they are or how they are fired), they have these very light and slim radiators. so i suspect that whatever direction we take, even if it includes modern gas equipment, these old radiators will be obsolete.

carlinepierre27 | 2 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5111 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5112 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "189740"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(15) "carlinepierre27"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BIg4RnY0aQxqSGJsSwY5qFq4t7HU/d0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(15) "carlinepierre27"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(25) "carlinepierre27@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2022-05-10 13:26:30"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(29) "Carline Pierre Carline Pierre"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(189740)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I have been looking into the same question for a house I own upstate. My understanding is that there are a few companies that sell air to water heat pumps in Canada and Europe but nothing is widely available in the US. I am hesitant to replace my hot water radiators with mini-splits and I am hopeful that greener options for hot water systems are on the horizon.

JohnHancock | 2 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5106 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5110 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "22067"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "JohnHancock"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bw9EUIInWUWur5HPQmiuDek2VIWsxp1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "JohnHancock"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(18) "steefv@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2008-12-17 12:39:58"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "JohnHancock"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(22067)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

All these boilers, on demand water heaters , whatever you call them are usually on the top floor or nearby and directly vented outside. Provides heat and hot water. Central heating is hot water with a 2 pipe system, so you can control each radiator individually.
This is standard EVERYWHERE and has been standard since the early 70’s. Can’t stop laughing why ppl even try to debate this….I mean it’s just old news….

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5099 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5113 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "189743"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BjSWB1c5WUJ0DBogl53oBDpnZifM8J."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "justinromeu26@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2022-05-10 20:48:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(61) "Your First Name Your Last Name Your First Name Your Last Name"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(189743)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Its new to us johnh and for some of us who want to make the change to something better, the reality is we might not want to make that change twice, so we might wait to see where we go as a country with this stuff. Many people won’t see putting european technology in our homes if we don’t have the support here for it or it is seen as something for a luxury market. And older people might delay with the junk they have now or might plan to do it once

I put a call into someone in europe. He just put a new heating system in and he mentioned heat pumps. I am going to kick this around with him in a few days.

JohnHancock | 2 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5111 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5114 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "22067"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "JohnHancock"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bw9EUIInWUWur5HPQmiuDek2VIWsxp1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "JohnHancock"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(18) "steefv@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2008-12-17 12:39:58"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "JohnHancock"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(22067)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Everyone in the Netherlands is going to switch over to heat pumps for new construction or when replacing your current boiler by 2026. I’m assuming Germany and nearby countries have similar timelines.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5113 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5106 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "189743"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BjSWB1c5WUJ0DBogl53oBDpnZifM8J."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "justinromeu26@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2022-05-10 20:48:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(61) "Your First Name Your Last Name Your First Name Your Last Name"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(189743)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Prob all eu.

Master Plvmber | 2 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5114 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5099 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "1447"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BSHLZQSJWUzjnaSv9fyWJpNYjwcz.u."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "info@gatewayplumbing.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "http://www.GatewayPlumbing.com"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2007-08-10 20:40:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(14) "Master Plvmber"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(1447)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I just came from a seminar from the distributors of a high tech air to water heat pump company and they stressed: “Do not take a boiler out of a house and expect this unit to heat a home in (our) climate. This technology is intended for highly engineered homes that have minimal heat loss and next-to-zero infiltration.”

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5106 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5111 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "189743"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BjSWB1c5WUJ0DBogl53oBDpnZifM8J."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "justinromeu26"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "justinromeu26@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2022-05-10 20:48:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(61) "Your First Name Your Last Name Your First Name Your Last Name"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(189743)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

i spent some time on the phone with the guy from Europe. a lot of people there are still putting in gas heating. this guy i spoke to put in a new gas “boiler” three years ago (and this guy is a big “green” sort of guy; i asked him about the gas and he said “well it is cleaner than oil”; sounds just like some of us here). Some people are still putting in oil.

These gas boilers are smaller than ours. he said the unit he has measures 3′ tall by 18″ wide and hangs on the back of the house (outside). that would freeze here if it failed on the wrong day.

He told me about the heat pumps and said they have been marketing them for 5 years or so. He told me that ALL new construction has to have them. The big manufacturer of them for the EU is Grant.

What he did tell me was they are getting grants to install new “zoned” systems. Now his house always had two pipe radiators with manual valves that can be closed to isolate a room, but he means zoned heating that switches areas of the house off from the source (the heating unit manifold or something) (my father has two zone hot water with two valves and circulators on a manifold and has two thermostats; not really new technology).

The person i spoke to could not answer questions about using this in a cold climate like sweden BUT i looked on line and they have been installing a lot of these heat pumps in Sweden, not sure if they are going in new construction but it sounds that way.