Adding historical detail that was never there originally?
Has anyone added historical details to your brownstone where they never previously existed before? Our home still has the original, but relatively basic, picture moldings/medallions/door frames, etc., but none of the ornate woodwork, fireplace mantles, wainscoting, cornices, tin ceilings, etc. that exist in similarly (though more expensively?) designed and dated homes. I don’t think it’s been removed – it was just never there to begin with. (The beautiful wood floors, plaster walls, and lattice ceilings are still intact, however).
Is it blasphemous, or maybe just tacky, to add in some of these details where they never existed originally? If we do, should I be researching the historical accuracy of these details so I am matching the additions to the home’s era (circa 1910) and correct architectural style (Italianate? Victorian? I have no idea!) ? Where can I learn more about these different architectural styles in Brooklyn homes, and what was being built when and where? Obviously obviously, we can do whatever we want with our house, but are there general recommend ations about these sorts of decisions? (Also, we’re not made of money so want to choose what we do wisely.)
Our home is landmarked, if that makes a difference, but I believe those restrictions/approvals only apply to the outside of the building, not the inside.
bbrc
in General Discussion 5 years and 10 months ago
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montrosemorris | 5 years and 10 months ago
The Neo-Renaissance period covers a range of interior style. On the high end, the Beaux Arts housing stock featured lots of woodwork, both painted and natural, and a lot of classical ornamentation like columns, cartouches and swags. Since electricity was coming into its own, this was the period of gorgeous Tiffany lamps and overdone fixtures of all kinds. Stained glass was still popular, but the designs were simpler, the colors generally lighter.
At the same time, the Arts and Crafts Movement was gathering steam on both coasts. Bungalows were in, as was Stickley furniture and a return to big, chunky handmade furniture pieces. Many of the rowhouses built in this time period feature tall oak or dark stained wainscoting, especially in dining rooms, with accompanying high plate rails. Craftsman style shows up in Brooklyn in Motawi and similar styled fireplace tiles (think 5×5 dark green or ochre glazed tile) so familiar in Craftsman homes. Lighting fixtures in Craftsman bungalows look handmade, straying from Victorian organic swirls towards geometric shapes.
The Colonia l Revival was also gaining steam, so many houses in Brooklyn from this time period have Federal-inspired details, again, think columns, swags, etc. It’s a very formal style, scaled down Beaux Arts in many ways. Most of the CR’s I’ve seen in Brooklyn rowhouses have nicely scaled, almost delicate wooden mantles or pier mirrors and columned room dividers, nice floors and door and window casings.
With all this going on, some houses I’ve seen have a little of everything. I think builders put in what customers wanted to see, so you can see Colonial Revival style fireplaces with Craftsman tile surrounds, lots of simple stained glass, and both natural and painted woodwork. And lots of light fixtures – the ever present pan lights, with and without shades, sconces, etc. And the owners have Stickley furniture, and it all looks great. Frank Lloyd Wright and the Prairie School was also during this period, so the things inspired by his architecture work too.
There’s a wealth of what you can choose from and still stay period to the house. Even if you don’t have mantels, or some of the other things you think you may have had. There are a wealth of books showing Craftsman style, as well as Colonial Revival. This was a time when the 19th century was still holding on, but the 20th was coming up with all kinds of new stuff, like lighting and appliances, that we know and expect today. Have fun with it!
cate | 5 years and 10 months ago
Sometimes houses built in the early 20th century had “sleeping porches” with bead-board ceilings. Sunrooms were another popular feature. Re your staircase, if it’s original, you can remove the linoleum and refinish the treads and/or add a runner. (Details of how to do this could take up an entirely separate post.) Pocket doors and working interior shutters were probably passe by 1910, but these houses sometimes had wainscoting, parquet, stained glass, plate rails, anaglypta or lincrusta in entries and stairways, built-ins, wood screens, tapestry or other special wall effects in the dining room, coffered ceilings, and shoulder-high tile in the kitchen and baths. Lots of wallpaper opportunities. Check out C.A. Voysey for some designs of the era.
cate | 5 years and 10 months ago
Oh, so interesting, @wonderednow, thank you for sharing all this information about the history and features of your house. You have an Edwardian, not a Victorian, and the interior could even be Arts & Crafts, or verging on it. While some neo-Renaissance houses can be quite ornate inside, others can be quite plain (and the interior style doesn’t always match the exterior). I’ve seen lots of these houses in person and listings over the years, and some of the plainer ones can include original two-families in areas such as Ridgewood (Queens), Bushwick, Flatbush, etc. But they can be very ornate also at times, with coffered ceilings and elaborate built-ins in the dining rooms. They don’t usually have fireplaces, it is true, though sometimes they might have pier mirrors or not even that. I’m hoping someone on this thread can suggest some good resources (apart from our own stories) such as books and old magazines and ads for some interiors of the day. Jane Powell’s series of Bungalow books are fantastic but I’m not sure if they’re about the same style as your house. Here’s a fa ntastic example of a 1910 house in Kensington with tons of original details. Keep in mind it’s likely all the woodwork was dark and unpainted originally. https://www.brownstoner.com/real-estate-market/brooklyn-homes-for-sale-windsor-terrace-235-east-4th-street-porch-stained-glass-single-family/ Here’s a 1906 neo-Renaissance two-family in PLG: https://www.brownstoner.com/real-estate-market/brooklyn-homes-for-sale-prospect-lefferts-gardens-plg-21-hawthorne-street-two-family-mantels/ You can also search “neo-Renaissance” on Brownstoner for more examples. Good luck and have fun!
hkapstein | 5 years and 10 months ago
I think it’s a great idea. If someone wanted to renovate their 1870 house in 1890, they would do so and that would be part of the history of the house. Hopefully they would try to make it fit with the architectural style and features of the home. If someone wants to do that today, I think it’s great. Many houses had parquet floors added in the 1890s, or extensions built later on. Rather than a choice between all cookie cutter white box renovations, and living in a house designed around coal fireplace heating, what’s wrong with a little tweaking that’s appropriate for the historical style of the house?
I think the biggest obstacle is that it’s very difficult to find information about what is appropriate and how to get quality milllwork, plaster, and ironwork done at an affordable price. American walnut was very cheap when these houses were built, and it isn’t now. But it was chosen because it was cheap, not because it was special and I think good substitutes are available, such as sapele, or even poplar. Also, what was a stock item in 1910 is a probably custom item no w, but there are some ways to limit the expense of doing this work. Also, I think if people shared when they were doing custom work on brownstoner, maybe we could all save a few bucks. If you’re having a special moulding run, or a casting pattern done for your stoop ironwork etc, it would be cool to mention that in case someone else might have a match.
bbrc
in General Discussion 5 years and 10 months ago
@Cate Actually, from looking at the designation report, our house is classified as neo-Renaissance, and was built in 1910. From my limited knowledge (mostly scouring Streeteasy listings), it seems like it was built rather simply. For example, there are no fireplaces or mantels, but there are also no chimneys, nor are there any floor markings that would suggest there used to be fireplaces that were removed. There are no pocket doors, or old pocket-door cavities, and there isn’t a ton of ornate molding around door frames. It has the original walls and layout according to floorplans I found at the DOB, and things like transoms, internal stain glass windows, beadboard ceilings in some rooms, original parquet floors, etc. But things that I am most desiring include wainscoting and shutters and large pocket doors and beautiful wood stairs (which are currently linoleum?!). Sigh.
Anyway, the search for historical accuracy continues. I am looking forward to keeping within the appropriate style and time-period as much as possible and not going overboard with the detail. Thanks for all the helpful history and experience!
cate | 5 years and 10 months ago
Sounds like you long for Queen Anne or neo-Renaissance but find yourself in a Greek Revival. I would encourage reading and doing a little digging (historic maps, etc.) to learn about the history of your house. Some (myself included ) feel it’s not optimal to add in historic detail that wasn’t there. Architectural styles changed pretty dramatically every 10 years or so in Brooklyn, and of course even when new, houses and rows varied greatly, and they all have their own distinct personalities. The more ornate Queen Anne houses that we think of as “Victorian” date from the 1880s. In the 1840s and ’50s in Brooklyn, a very elegant and simple (verging on modern) style was popular: The Greek Revival. Many who live in such houses think they are “missing” ornament or that the houses were “ordinary.” They have very elegant proportions and many of their features were hand rather than machine made. Some of the most prized examples are landmarked houses in Brooklyn Heights, and they are also prevalent in South Slope, Greenwood Heights, Williamsburg and Greenpoint, where often they a re hidden under vinyl siding, drop ceilings and faux paneling and people don’t realize what a gem they have. You can read more about Greek Revival here and by searching “Greek Revival” on Brownstoner: https://www.brownstoner.com/guides/architectural-styles/greek-revival-architecture-brooklyn-history/f . Good luck with your project!
bbrc
in General Discussion 5 years and 10 months ago
I really appreciate all these suggestions, thank you! I’ve reserved several of these books at the library, and was utterly fascinated by the LPC manual on architectural styles, and the vintage trade catalog. Wow, THANK YOU!
Arkady | 5 years and 10 months ago
I put in a coffin niche just because I liked the look of them. It serves no purpose since the turn in my stairs is adequate for a coffin or furniture. I wired it so there’s a small lamp at the top of the stairs making them safer for guests.
chemosphere | 5 years and 10 months ago
There’s quite a wide range of what you could do and still be “historic” for a Victorian or Edwardian era house. Most Brooklyn houses were pretty conservative for the era compared to other cities. I don’t know if anybody ever did this in Brooklyn, but why not a historic but ultra modern interior from ~1910?
https://www.dezeen.com/2015/03/02/adolf-loos-interiors-restored-pilsen-open-public/
Or a ultra-colorful over the top interior from 1880? http://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/11/04/t-magazine/04well-loeb.html
stevecym | 5 years and 10 months ago
some other things to consider. in the late 18th and early 19th century, the designers were already copying someone else, from eons past and what they were installing changed in a few short years, decade by decade (i see the changes moving from neighborhood to neighborhood). so it may not be apparent to everyone right away, but if you miss the decade or worse, mix things from a span of decades, something may not look right. people may not be able to identify it, but it will “look” out of place. keep in mind that working class homes would have had less detail than middle class or business class homes; adding a lot of detail to a small room or house may make it appear “closed in”. In all houses, scale or size of what is added will have to be considered. if you choose carefully and from good sources, such as dykes, you can get the size of what you are adding close to what would have been used in the period as they will have several sizes of the same molding profile. but if you go to big box stores or order from catalogs, my fear is that things will be out of s cale and it will jump out (we’ve all seen it someplace, someone adds a giant crown molding with giant dentil below it to a 12×15 room with 8 ft ceilings). that is ok on a movie set but will look out of place in a home.
there is also the issue of finishing wood which was discussed on here a few weeks back. early on, pre brownstone era, most wood was pine and made to be painted. as we move on past the civil war, in the late 1870’s, houses began to appear with mahogany and later oak and this was stained and varnished (shellacked, oiled or waxed or oiled and waxed). if you plan on staining any wood in a house, if you use pine, it will look out of place no matter what. so you will want to look better woods and about the only “better” wood readily available is poplar and that is not much better than pine and to stain it up to look like a better wood takes a bit of work.
if you proceed, do so with restraint.
steve
www.thetinkerswagon.com
montrosemorris | 5 years and 10 months ago
Another good research source is “Victorian Interior Decoration” by Winkler and Moss. Available quite inexpensively on Amazon or Ebay, if you can’t find it locally, which you may not, it’s not a new book. They cover most of the 19th century, and showcase the design trends in the various architectural styles. The book will tell you when parquet floors were introduced, wooden mantels made a comeback after marble, chair rails and dadoes, wall to wall carpet, etc.
LPC has a rowhouse guide on their website which describes the various styles of row houses.
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/lpc/downloads/pdf/lp_rhmanual.pdf
If you can pick yours out, that will give you an idea of date and style. If you are landmarked, the designation report is even better, as most list the style, date and architect, if known.
NeoGrec | 5 years and 10 months ago
For a quick lesson in brownstone architecture, I suggest investing in a copy of the new edition of Charles Lockwood’s BRICKS AND BROWNSTONE (Rizzoli). There are also a bunch of titles from Dover Press that are reprints of 19th century design guides, like LATE VICTORIAN INTERIORS by Tuthill. You can, of course, add whatever details you like, but your instinct to avoid tackiness is a good one. Restraint is always the best approach. Some details are harder to source and more expensive than others. Fireplace mantels offer a lot of bang for the buck if you build them in wood, then paint over. Salvaged marble and slate mantels can be quite pricey. Again, if painted, wainscoting or beadboard ceilings are affordable. Hardwood panelling, on the other hand, is very costly and often doesn’t look right because it’s, well, too new. Tin ceilings were generally added later to disguise damage to a plaster ceiling. The old patterns can still be purchased. Plaster cornices can be custom made (I believe there’s a place in Red Hook that does this) or run in place but both options are expens ive. You can also buy cornicing by the linear foot from places like Chicago Decorators Supply and Felber. I get a kick when visitors to our house can’t tell the difference between what’s new and what’s original but in fact we removed some old details (I find picture rails fussy) so it’s all to personal taste. Actually it sounds like you have plenty of detail already! Good luck, anyway.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 5 years and 10 months ago
Blasphemous? As much as I revere historic houses I don’t think they [quite] constitute a religion. Tacky? Only (IMO) if badly done. Personally I see nothing wrong with adding something that MIGHT have been there. For example, tin ceilings were a common replacement for a damaged ceiling. There were none our house, but we had them installed in three rooms. I think they look great. It’s your house and you can do what you want. I personally dislike “restoring” a house to a period earlier than when it was built, but that’s just my opinion
Jasperrose11 | 5 years and 10 months ago
If you are thinking you want to do something in keeping with the general style of your house I would definitely suggest digging into the history as you mention. If you are getting the circa 1910 date strictly from DOB or other city online records it is likely wrong as they almost always are for anything pre 1920s. You may well have done this already, but if not since you are in a historic district you can check out date and architect information as contained in the designation report as a starting point: https://nyclpc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=93a88691cace4067828b1eede432022b .
Sales ads in the Brooklyn Eagle online are a great source for descriptions – houses are often described with their top features like mantels, woodwork etc. https://bklyn.newspapers.com/
If your house is similar to other houses on your block it can be helpful to look at the interiors of those to see what detail they have that you might be missing – if not in person than taking a look at old listings on streeteasy.
A good general resource for residential architecture in Manhattan and Brooklyn, just out in a new edition, is Bricks & Brownstones by Charles Lockwood.
Vintage trade catalogues are also a great source:
https://www.brownstoner.com/interiors-renovation/brooklyn-architecture-trade-catalog-historic-house-finishes-research/
Happy Hunting!