Abnormal Runoff Problem Continues… Ugh…

Ok… looking down the back clean out which is aprox 8” above the supposedly “pitched” main pipe just inside the back door, I’m seeing standing water… somewhere on the 40 foot line of the pipe there must be a dip (assuming the clean out guy did a good job)…. Which is preventing the water to fully drain after a storm.

Next step a camera.

THANKS for all who commented.

jrs84o

in General Discussion 1 year and 8 months ago

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jrs84o | 1 year and 8 months ago

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Last night I diverted 100% of my roof rain runoff to the back property line, 40 feet away from the outside drain at the top of my basement steps which connects to the main sewer line.

The only water entering the drain during last nights rainfall was from the immediate 5-6 feet around the drain…. NOT from the roof.

While it was raining, I watched the 5-minute rainfall database for my area—- And sure enough, once the rainfall came down at >.6”/hour… the drain at the bottom of my basement stairs backed up, overflowing the 4” cement threshold, and ran into my basement.

I had the plumber out 10 days ago who said the slope of my main sewer pipe must have “settled” over the last 100 years… slowing the runoff.

I had the drain guy come out, who snaked the drain and he found no blockage to the house p-trap.

This runoff problem is getting worse, only starting about 3-4 years ago.

I just can’t believe it’s a technical pipe problem…

Any ideas from the community?

I’m also a bit confused about the below, and need to ask the plumber this week, but thought I’d ask here…

Should w e have a separate storm runoff connection from our 100 year old property in Brooklyn, or does it all flow into the same system after the main p-trap as my roof runoff seems to?

Thnx.

jrs84o | 1 year and 8 months ago

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A little bit more info for those who may reply or comment:

I have two “clean outs” open along the 40 foot of main sewer pipe in my basement where I can watch the water build up inside the main pipe.

Once the water builds up inside the pipe I re-cap one clean out (the other however remains open because it’s from an old sink 3-4 feet above pipe level.)

Might the open clean outs create some sort of pressure distortion inside the pipe which causes it (the pipe) to NOT empty as fast as possible while uncapped?

I’ll ask the plumber… but thought there might be comments here…?.?

jrs84o | 1 year and 8 months ago

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I’m still 100% stumped.

Even with the roof run off at .5-.6 inches/hr over 1000 sqft, it would only amount to 20-40 gallons a minute down my spout into my drain… much less with the roof runoff directed into the backyard.

4” main pipe should be above to dump 210-240 gallons a minute into the sewer.

The only thing I can think of is… my main sewer and runoff hits the house p-trap before moving on into the sewer… is this standard in Brooklyn and a 100 year old house?

Problem is…. We never had this problem with runoff before 3 years ago.

Is my math wrong?

Is my plumber “right?”

Has the main pipe “settled”… and is now not providing proper slope… perhaps over the last couple of years?

Is this possible?

Thnx.

jrs84o | 1 year and 8 months ago

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For anyone interested… only 30-40% of NYC has separate storm sewage system for drainage and storm runoff… 0% in Bay Ridge.

My property is connected directly to the city sewer past my whole house p-trap which MUST NOT BE BIPASSED.

But somewhere in the back of my mind I knew that.

jrs84o | 1 year and 8 months ago

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Also.. hope this may be interesting not repetitive…

Can anyone correct my math below, or add other observations:

Rainfall accumulates at .623gal/sqft at 1”/hr rate of fall..

So if we conservatively suggest a “heavy” rainfall is a couple of .5”/hr periods of rainfall…

My 1000sqft roof is collecting runoff at about 312gal/hr during “heavy” 5 minute periods…

Or, flowing down the spout at aprox 26gal/per 5 minute period….

IMPORTANT PART BELOW

Or, aprox 5 gallons a minute.

My20ft gutter NEVER overflows and has a capacity of 50 gallons.

So, if a 4” main pipe dumps water into the sewer system at a minimum 240gal minute….

My system should be able to handle 50x the flow that is backing up into my basement.

Sorry I know it’s long… but maybe someone can help… Even after talking to the plumber I’m still perplexed.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 8 months ago

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Are you near the bottom of a hill or downgrade? If you look around are there houses on even a slight elevation compared to yours? We are near the crest of a slight elevation here and have no problems. When it rains hard, the people down the elevation have issues and if it rains super hard, the once in 5 year storms we are now getting, water actually backs up into their houses and floor drains and basement toilets.

What i am suggesting is that the problem may not be anything with your line or on your property but that there is a problem out in the street with the city sewer not being able to handle even a small amount of additional water. You are not seeing a back up from the street like some people here get but you are getting a slow down.

This is only a thought and sometimes to resolve these things everything has to be taken into consideration. Keep researching and talking to people. If you find someone experieced, tell them what i just said and see what they say.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 8 months ago

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Have you checked to see if your neighbors have this issue? Before you run too far with what i am suggesting above, talk to neighbors, especially any who may be downgrade from you.

When we moved in here there was an old man who had been born in the house he lived in. If there had been a problem on the street, with any of the houses, even decades back, he knew all about it. See if you can find a neighbor whose been there a long time and talk to them. People like that may be able to convey what the problem and solution were.

jrs84o | 1 year and 8 months ago

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@HomeInspector THANKS for the comments!

Yes the streets here in Bay Ridge run like a river with a downpour… What gets me is most people have started to get a little 2-10 gallons (by their account) every time it rains.. so there may be a common problem… but the houses next to me get no water (one had a hydro pipe clean out, the other just 100 year old pipes.)

I’m beginning to think its a pitch issue with the main pipe..

We had some work done near the house trap about 5 years ago… maybe this small segment has “decayed” off of the correct pitch.

I’ll have to break up the concrete to check it….. so I’m trying to eliminate everything else I can before I get the sledge hammer out.

THANKS AGAIN.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 8 months ago

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you can have someone run a video camera to see if there is a backward pitch. we had a backward pitch in a building i managed and it ONLY became a problem if a clog developed there (which was once every 6 mos. or so). so long as a clog was not there, water ran through it fine.

igorbalmeida | 1 year and 8 months ago

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I did two things recently that have helped with the water flowing faster. I hydrojetted the front trap and I vacuumed all the traps. I feel it helps the water move better instead of getting stuck. If you have backup, you can also call the AWR and get only the front trap snaked for free. They don’t cover for rain but if you think you have a blockage.

Guest User | 1 year and 8 months ago

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I second the camera idea. If you can’t see the buried pipe slope then you are only making educated assumptions. Can be pricey diagnostics but cheaper than ripping up your floors