3 ft high deck rules
Btw just ignore my stuff on 8′ deep requirement, we’ll agree to disagree smoky and Mr. Hill I’m sorry I dragged you in to this lol.
I’m causing this thread to digress from what we’d really like to know which is the 3′ high rule. Mea culpa!
greenworks
in General Discussion 6 years and 10 months ago
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jrkeat | 6 years and 11 months ago
I’m interested in building a deck. The exit to it is 4 ft above the ground, so a 3 ft deck will work fine. It seems like if I build it 3 ft or less I don’t have to go through the DOB, based on some Brownstoner forums and an expert in a 1996 New York Times article. It seems like at that height it’s no longer considered a deck, it’s landscaping or something like that. I’m an engineer, and it would be nice to be able to do the design and construction myself, and not have an 8 ft limit which DOB permitted decks seem to have.
I have several questions:
1) Where can I find the law that say that decks under 3 ft are special? (I’ve been reading the building code, but haven’t found it.)
2) Does the deck material that is within 3 feet of the property line have to be fireproof? (I would guess yes–they specifically say that sheds within 3 ft of the property line have to be fireproof, for example.)
3) I’d like to fill my entire 17×12 backyard space. If I follow the fire rules, can I do that?
4) Is there anything, like putting in concrete footings, that will kick me back into having to use the DOB?
5) Is it really just totally unregulated then–I can violate the 40lb/sq ft and the railing rules for decks if I want?
Don’t feel like you have to answer all the questions! Getting one answered would be a big victory for me.
Basically everyone on my street has already built just this kind of deck–I just not sure if I can build one legally.
Thanks!
mozeeatupu | 6 years and 11 months ago
I think any deck above 30 inches requires a railing and there are specific railing rules and floor load rules among others you must follow.
I don’t think it needs to be filed but will be illegal if the code requirements aren’t met.
jrkeat | 6 years and 11 months ago
Just so that everyone has the same information, this is where a representative of the DOB says decks under 3 ft may not have to be filed: https://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/26/realestate/q-a-a-deck-without-a-permit.html
“But it is also possible that it doesn’t even have to be filed,” Mr. Sturcken [a spokesman for the Department of Buildings] said, explaining that a properly built deck built “on grade”–meaning generally no higher than three feet above the ground–would typically not require department approval.
bklynbabe | 6 years and 11 months ago
We hired an architect for our deck. But to answer question 2, yes. Anything within 3 feet of the property line cannot be combustible. Wood elements there like a railing have to be “removable”
I don’t understand the logic of this even in terms of fire prevention because within 3 feet of the property line people seem to plant trees, erect fabric awnings, lattice screens, pergolas and especially wood FENCES everywhere you look. But that is what they want.’
On the metal-floored areas we plan to put planters and benches and the recycling container tucked into a corner. It’s not difficult to make it unnoticeable, in your case this could be container plants that form a privacy screen.
mozeeatupu | 6 years and 11 months ago
It’s so fireman could knock it down to get access to an adjoining lot.
slopefarm | 6 years and 11 months ago
But this thread does not concern building within 3 feet of the adjacent property line. It concerns a deck 3 feet in height off the ground.
jrkeat | 6 years and 11 months ago
Is carriagehouse99 out there? You said the 3ft height not needing a permit thing was real in an older forum. Can you add anything here? How do you know it’s real?
jrkeat | 6 years and 11 months ago
@carriagehouse99: You said the 3ft height decks not needing a permit thing was real in an older discussion. Can you add anything here? How do you know it’s real?
helen40
in General Discussion 6 years and 11 months ago
I think its risky to rely on a quote from a 1996 article on rules for building a deck in 2018. There have been several iterations of the Building Code since that time.
Regardless, like all other construction NYC, its a risk/reward proposition. You can always build without a permit. The risk is that you will face an inspection based on a 311 call. Or, more long term, face issues if you apply for a mortgage or try to sell. You may have to demo an unfiled deck. The risk here seems minimal.
Smokychimp | 6 years and 10 months ago
There is no law that says the decks under 3′ get exemption. The rules on decks in NYC are based on a TPP #4, 2003. TPP mean internal Department of Buildings technical policy memo. You can google this and find it.
Unfortunately it’s pretty strict, this was written in response to a collapse of a deck in the Rockaways that killed several people.
greenworks | 6 years and 10 months ago
Thanks smoky, but I’m assuming that the provision you cite is not the entirety of the DOB rules on decks — for instance, that provision states unequivocally that decks cannot project more than 8′, when I understand that in certain (albeit very limited) circumstances, they can be more than 8′.
The idea that decks under 3′ high can go unpermitted (loose phrasing here) HAS to come from somewhere other than an old NY Times article even if that provision is no longer in effect.
I, like OP, and I’m sure others, would LOVE to know an actual cite to an actual provision for that, even if no longer valid.
Smokychimp | 6 years and 10 months ago
what I mention above is not the entirety of the deck rules, it’s the internal DOB memorandum that plan reveiwers use as a guidelinefor deck issues. A comprehensive list of current rules that the DOB follows for decks are
-the current code
-the TPP#4 of 2003.
-within fire districts, provisions for noncumbustible construction within three feet of a property line (not a rule within the deck provisions, but it governs).
Additionally, you will see examiners disregard the current code in preference for the 1968 depending on their inclination.
Decks are limited to 8’ in depth. You could always try for a preconsideration that made you exempt, if you had a good reason.
greenworks | 6 years and 10 months ago
Can anyone here answer the OP’s question (and mine) with a citation to an actual provision in the code that exists or did exist?
And smoky, I believe Jim Hill has outlined the limited instances in which you can have a deck greater than 8′ deep. I’ve linked to his posts before, they’re in here somewhere.
greenworks | 6 years and 10 months ago
Unless I’m reading these posts wrong . . . https://www.brownstoner.com/forum-archive/2009/05/deck-question-s/