repainting brownstone facade
There should be a photo in the landmarks archives from the designation report. If the designation was in 2007 I’ll bet it’s color. Ask the preservation rep if they can provide it, if not you may have to file form or freedom of information type request, but you should be able to get it.
That said, if it was pink in 2011, it was probably pink in 2007. If it was pink in 2007, tell your preservationist you’re going to be forced to paint it pink unless they can clear you to paint it another color. I think if you kiss up a little and make it clear there’s no budget for a new facade, they will work with you.
hkapstein
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
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Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
I agree though I didn’t say it wasn’t entirely without risk.
Scaffolding can be filed for repairs I assume. Above 40ft requires the scaffolding permit and ladders over 40ft are not legal to use in the City. How tall is the building?
Let’s say someone calls DOB, that doesn’t translate to LPC being informed. DOB is usually will fine as long as you follow their rules ie file and get the scaffolding permit if required. If someone calls LPC, you point to their Guidebook.
If you want to be really safe call LPC and say “Hey this is what the Guidebook says about painting, is that correct?” See what they say.
hkapstein | 3 years and 11 months ago
Well here’s an idea. Check the 1984 tax photo and the landmarks report. Maybe it was a more attractive color at designation, and you should technically be allowed to paint it that color. But it will be a bit of a lift. LPC doesn’t like painted masonry, and that’s probably a good thing.
RobertGMarvin
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
I’m pretty sure the LPC’s photos of our neighborhood for its 1979 HD designation are all black and white. Maybe more recent recent ones are in colors. I imagine that if LPC is relying on monochrome photographs you could possibly get away with any color that translates into a similar gray scale tone as their photographs. Unfortunately I think pink would be a light gray and brown a dark tone.
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
Agree with you Bob. Most are B/W.. Though you may find a news or real estate photo that may be more recent.
I’ve read the LPC guidebook on this subject: one does not need a permit to to repaint in the existing color. If you try to change the color or if you try to ask for permission, LPC would obviously prefer a restoration vs. painting. Also asking for permission may open up a can of worms.
Understanding that not everyone can afford to restore so you need to do what’s best for you. If you do end up repainting use masonry paint, call Cathedral https://www.cathedralstone.com
Remember LPC and DOB are different. If you don’t need an LPC permit then DOB is not going to request to see one. However more likely than not, this job will require scaffolding which requires a DOB permit. This is a separate requirement than the LPC permit. The LPC doesn’t care about your scaffolding permit.
And call LPC, just because you ask them a question, they aren’t going to follow up . Wishing you luck
hkapstein | 3 years and 11 months ago
So If you illegally paint it, you can continue to paint it that color? Good luck selling that interpretation.
RobertGMarvin
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
Only if you get away with it the first time: 🙂
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
If you ask permission for repainting the existing color – which is something that currently doesn’t need a permit – they may say no. Their preference will always be restoration, OP should call LPC and see if they will accept brown since it’s already ‘painted’.
RobertGMarvin
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
You do NOT need permission to repaint in the color that was there when the house , or HD was designated
RobertGMarvin
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
Of course that’s irrelevant in this case where the OP doesn’t want to repaint in the same ugly color.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
Thank you all for your input. Bob Marvin is correct; we have no desire to repaint the house the same pink color. The LPC manual does state that repainting the house to match the original brownstone is an option with approval, but since my neighbor had issues that did not align with LPC’s guidebook, I wondered if anyone dealt with this issue firsthand. The existing color of her house is white, and when asked to repaint it white they denied her application.
Thanks again for all your thoughts.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
Thank you all for your input. Bob Marvin is correct; we have no desire to repaint the house the same pink color. The LPC manual does state that repainting the house to match the original brownstone is an option with approval, but since my neighbor had issues that did not align with LPC’s guidebook, I wondered if anyone dealt with this issue firsthand. The existing color of her house is white, and when asked to repaint it white they denied her application.
Thanks again for all your thoughts.
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
We understood that you had no desire to repaint it pink. I think very few people would. Per the Guidebook, your neighbor did not need to ask for permission. In your neighbor’s situation, asking resulted in a refusal that could have possibly been avoided. I don’t know all the details …maybe there was more than just paint. In your situation, you may very well get a different preservationist who may approve it. If you can make a convincing case with rationale that more or less follows rules, generally they will approve.
hkapstein | 3 years and 11 months ago
I’m leaning towards agreeing with janedrew’s suggestion to just do it, unless you have to get a DOB permit in conjunction with this work which would likely have a landmarks item to complete for it to be issued.
However, one item you need to think about is the possibility of lead paint and how you will keep it out of the street when prepping it. I’ve seen folks remove facade paint in an unsafe manner, and it was not popular with the neighbors.
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
No DOB permit needed for painting per 1_RCNY_101-14. But make sure you get the scaffolding permit if needed. Here’s the thing, let’s say someone complained to DOB as long as you get a scaffolding permit (if needed) you should be fine. Let’s imagine for a second you got a LPC violation, I think you have a good case and tons of people have those and for years. It’s not a hassle like the DOB violation.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
The painting is part of a larger LPC application consisting of new windows, restored stoop (we will do the full brownstone restoration on that), and facade painting. Janedrew, you’re correct – no DOB permit required. It seems complicated to leave the painting off the permit, but also to bring the contractor back at a later date because we will need to submit a PAA after the permitted work is done which involves photo documentation. My neighbor also filed for the repainting as part of a much larger job but she plans to repaint it without a permit a few years down the road after having been denied. However, we are desperate to do this painting ASAP so people stop mistaking it for an abandoned house.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
The painting is part of a larger LPC application consisting of new windows, restored stoop (we will do the full brownstone restoration on that), and facade painting. Janedrew, you’re correct – no DOB permit required. It seems complicated to leave the painting off the permit, but also to bring the contractor back at a later date because we will need to submit a PAA after the permitted work is done which involves photo documentation. My neighbor also filed for the repainting as part of a much larger job but she plans to repaint it without a permit a few years down the road after having been denied. However, we are desperate to do this painting ASAP so people stop mistaking it for an abandoned house.
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
Thank you for sharing, this context would have been helpful in the original post. Doesn’t seem like you have a choice here. In the past, I have had luck putting together a document with supporting rationale to make a case.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
Many thanks all for your input. I spoke to the contractor who said he has ONLY repainted facades the same color with LPC approval. If anyone happens to have first hand experience painting a landmarked facade that was approved, I would sincerely appreciate it if you could share your experiences. I am realizing this is more rare than I expected.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
Many thanks all for your input. I spoke to the contractor who said he has ONLY repainted facades the same color with LPC approval. If anyone happens to have first hand experience painting a landmarked facade that was approved, I would sincerely appreciate it if you could share your experiences. I am realizing this is more rare than I expected.